Pompous negativity in Cafe Society threads

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](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=187190)OK. Can I just say this kind of thing really bugs me?

On two counts.

First, what can it possibly benefit you, plnnr, to stick your head into a lovefest for something that holds no interest for you, only to share the fact that it holds no interest for you? You’re obviously speaking almost exclusively to people who disagree with you, so where’s your thrill? If I see a thread title inviting fellow fans to glurg over something that I find lame, then I consider myself off the guest list and avoid the thread; the alternative is nothing but rude, in my opinion. I’m not suggesting that there are rules that any such thread is off limits to me—nor even yet to you, plnnr, so don’t waste our time with any first amendment garbage, unless you weren’t going to, in which case nevermind—I’m only suggesting that it’s rude and childish.

It’s to be hoped, I would think, that Dopers will participate in threads to which they have something substantive to contribute; to the extent to which a post is more noise than signal, it’s annoying to the rest of us.

In the second place, this gets another of my goats (I’m runnin out of goats here). All art is subject to opinion. There can’t possibly be one single work of art, in the history of mankind, that EVERYBODY likes. This doesn’t mean that some people are right and some people are wrong. It may mean that some people get it or some people don’t; or some people see it from one perspective and some people see it from another; or that some people were dropped on their heads and some people weren’t. Getting the common thread here? The difference of opinion on any particular piece of art is 100% a reflection of the viewer, not of the artwork. OK? Every work of art is a Rorschach test. No exceptions, again I say 100%: it’s about the viewer of the art, not the artist.

So (getting a little further afield here, plnnr; you did not quite do this, so please feel free to bow out at this point), I really HATE it when someone comes into a thread like this and implies that they are smarter or better for NOT liking something that someone else likes.

It’s rude, it’s insulting, and it’s often cruel; and it serves only one purpose: to make the critic feel bigger by belittling others. (Again, plnnr, not you here.)

If you see nothing of value in something that others DO find valuable, that doesn’t mean that you have clearer vision. In fact, it might just mean that you have LESS clear vision. To imply otherwise is to imply that those who see something you don’t are imagining, or worse yet inventing, that thing which you for whatever reason of context or culture fail to recognize.

Why can’t more people say, in such an instance, “You know, I just don’t get [X movie/book/song/whatever]; it just didn’t speak to me,” instead of “You LIKED that movie? It SUCKED! That was the worst piece of crap that’s every made it to the big screen!”

The THIRD thing I hate about this (did I mention there were three things?) is the whole “Speed Racer” bullshit you hear from Anime uninitiates. I have a friend who says he can’t stand to watch ANY Anime because “they all have the same eyes.” And get this—the guy’s a WALT DISNEY fan, for chrissakes. Hasn’t he ever noticed that Disney heroines only have one style of eye? So what? So “anime” has a recognizable visual style? What the dripping bloody hell does that matter? Totoro is a masterpiece of writing, of characterization, of detail, of every frikkin thing you can think of, except perhaps for eyes. So focus on the eyes and REFUSE to see anything beyond that; it’s your own feet your shooting yourself in.

People who hold artistic ignorance up as some kind of badge of honor really get on my tits.

Wow. All that frothing over Japanese cartoons. :smiley:

Actually, I do find it interesting that Japanese animation has such a rigidly codified drawing style. Not enough to pay much attention to it, but there you are.

/me holds up artistic ignorance as a badge of honor

Lemme see them knockers.

Here here! (Yay drive by affirmations)

I like the word anime. It sounds obscene.

heehee.

<shrug>

I’m guilty of it sometimes. I figure it’s because it’s a public message board, nobody’s life is at stake, and I have as much right to post a negative review as someone has to post a positive on.

Besides, if you keep your mind open, you end up learning almost as much from a negative review as you do from your standard puppydogs-n-bunnies tongue-bath. Maybe more.

people having different opinions about art? don’t they know my opinions are the only ones that matter?

Particular threads have particular purposes. Negative comments are appropriate for threads asking for opinions. I agree that the comments the OP is complaining about are indeed inappropriate and annoying.

Whenever I see these unwelcome comments, all I can think of about these people is that they are trying to say “I’m better than you for not liking this thing you like”.

Or you could simply regard the possibility that someone will disagree with your opinion as inevitable, and not have a cow about it.

Again, <shrug>

After all, to disagree with an assessment of art in a thread devoted to that artist or work of art is not really a hijack. It’s not even being “jerkish.” It’s just that I may not agree, for example, that Avril Lavigne is punk rock’s last, best hope.

That’s exactly my point, Revtim; thanks for making it a little more clearly.

I’ve wanted to write this OP a thousand times, like when there was a thread asking people to name their favorite Eminem song, and every other post was some asshole driving by to say, in effect, “I’ve never listened to Eminem, but I’m a sheep who believes just what the media tells me to believe, so I’ve come here to share with you my ill-considered hatred of Eminem.”

I mean, spare us.

I disagree. While there are certain common elements to most Japanese style animation, anyone who has watched a great deal of it can tell you that there are definitely some noticable differences between them. Enough difference that I don’t think it could be called “rigidly codified.” I don’t think there’s any more of a common look than there is in American animation, in general.

Big eyes, yeah – but Pokemon, Speed Racer, Yu Gi Oh, Spirited Away, Devil Hunter Yohko, Ranma 1/2… just to name a few. They all have different styles. Not even all of them have HUGE eyes – try Ninja Scroll, another good one.

Uh, you are mocking people who disagree with your beliefs, the exact thing you are deriding against.

Well, suppose they had listened to Eminem, and decided that they hated his music anyway. You may consider it jerkish to share a contrary opinion, but it’s a public place. As long as the poster in question follows the rules of the forum and avoids being insulting to his fellow posters, I don’t see the problem. You like Eminem. Poster X does not. You start a thread. Poster X opines.

Big deal.

Just out of curiosity, and with no snark intended, would you feel the same about a Cafe Society thread where someone wrote “Eminem sucks!” as an OP and an Eminem-o-phile popped in to defend him?

IMHO, there is a huge difference between a thread titled “Eminem–What’s your humble opinion?” vs “Name your favorite Eminem song.” It is clear that the latter is for fans–if you have never listened to him, you don’t have a favorite song. Therefore, you really don’t have anything of substance to add, do you?

Recently there was a thread about American Idol asking who posters thought would win and some people felt called upon to smugly state how cool they were for not watching. Good for them, I suppose, but does this add to the thread or are they just being jerks?

I think Cafe Society threads that are initiated just to slam something you don’t like are stupid, if that answers your question. I’d never suggest they not be allowed or anything, but I roll my eyes every time I see a thread with a title like “What’s the worst movie you’ve ever seen?” because I know it’s gonna be largely a litany of ignorance. But THAT would be an appropriate thread to express such opinions of course, so I’m saying nothing against that. In other words, if someone started a thread “Name your least favorite rapper,” I’d roll my eyes at the OP, but I certainly wouldn’t complain about the subsequent participants. And yes, I’d refrain from defending rappers I liked in such a thread because that’s not the point of that particular thread.

I just think–PERSONALLY–that such threads–threads with an entirely negative bent–are childish and pointless and only compound ignorance rather than fight it.

This was in response to Ogre.

What I find more irritating is the clowns that show up in a “Star Wars plot holes” thread to post things like:

“C3PO doesn’t remember being on Tatooine because it was a MOVIE!! It’s just a MOVIE people!!”

Their only point is to make everyone feel stupid for caring about a movie so much. Jerks.

Got any goats left over?

Well, I’ll stand by my assertion that (let’s say regarding the human form and faces in particular) much of the anime I’ve seen could credibly have been drawn by the same artist, despite having been produced by several different studios. I will bow to your greater knowledge of the subject, however, and return to my in-progress treatise on the existentialist viewpoint highlighted by the use of puppetry in Thunderbirds* and Fireball XL5, where I am on slightly firmer ground. Cheers.

. . . and all country western music sounds the same . . . UNTIL YOU LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

See what I mean about these kinds of statements being more often a display of ignorance than anything else?