CK Dexter Haven raised the subject, in the Robert Altman thread, of adopting a “say nothing but good things about the [recently] deceased” rule on the SD (or maybe just CS, I’m not sure).
I think this way lies madness. We could easily get into a whole “Yeah, you praised Altman but not with sufficient rapture” kind of thing. Sometimes people die whose deaths you consider a Good Thing, or at least Not Such A Bad Thing. In Altman’s case, my feelings are mixed–he made some good films and some terrible, boring, mind-numbingly awful movies–and I don’t see why I should be restricted from saying what I think about his career.
If anything, I think we could make such a distinction such as was suggested, but I’d like for the “death notice” threads to be labelled “collosally vapid panegyric encomia in which only maudlin and treacly words of endless praise will be tolerated,” so I’d know never to go there or to consider posting there.
Hmm. Looks to me what Dex is trying to do here is find a course between the rocks of those who would take any criticism of someone they admire who has passed as being ugly . . . and the shoals of those who are not only not overly grieved but see this as an opportunity to express an opinion.
You can compare such a thread to someone who would go to a viewing or visitation and would say “Yeah, he’s dead and good riddance.” That would be upsetting to those who came to pay their respects and grieve with family and friends.
I would say instead of instituting yet another rule you’d be better off starting a critical thread apart from the death notice, labeling the thread as such criticism, and moving on from there. That would be the considerate thing to do. Then those who wish to weigh in on the critical aspects could do so without impinging on those who would have their feelings hurt.
I agree with pseudotriton ruber ruber - I personally don’t think proliferation of rules is the way to go; we already have a rule to deal with jerks; I don’t think it needs any specific refinement regarding being a jerk in a specific kind of thread.
Well, the rule about being a jerk is remarkably (and intentionally) open to interpretation, and some folks see saying bad things about the recently deceased to be a jerkish thing to do. Of course, there are people (Saddam Hussein, Carrottop, etc.) whose deaths will celebrated, and those celebrations will not be widely condemned here, so I’d use that standard as the one to be applied in all death-threads–say whatever you like, as long as the target of your ire isn’t a Doper. I think that’s inclusive enough, exclusive enough, comprehensible enough and fair enough for me.
It’s the only way to go. To forbid people saying a bad word against Saddam and other slimeballs on their deaths would be absurd; to decide who falls into the ‘bad enough to be spoken ill of upon their dying’ category would be totally impractical.
Seems that making a separate thread and clearly stating that you’re going to do a critique of The Recently Departed is the most logical way to go. Maybe go to the original mourning thread and link over to the more critical thread? That way, folks get the guidance over to the less glowing read and don’t go starting multiple threads.
Hell, if you’re angry at Robert Altman, go to the Pit and have at it, right?
We use this Board for lots of things, and when people die, a lot of us come here to share the upset. No reason to shit in someone’s rice when you can take a small step aside and use your own bowl.
Given a moment, I could probably come up with more scatalogically-based analogies, but I’ve a cake to bake.
Yeah, but this place is supposed to be about (IMO) differing views. if all you want to read is posts that support your own view, you really should start your own messageboard, where you can answer your own General Questions, get into some Great Debates with yourself, share mundane pointless stuff with yourself etc.
Take my example of Saddam–he dies, I start a thread saying, “all in all, he wasn’t such a bad fellow, God bless him and his remaining family,” and so on. Are you shitting in my baklava if you dissent from those views? If not, then the Mods are going to have to make zillions of judgment calls as to which posts are and are not over the line, and have to judge “Well, was the OP’s subject sufficient shitty a person to make this OK, or is this jerky thread-shitting behavior I see here?”
I vote for being more permissive rather giving the Mods more work to do, that they’ll probably misuse from time to time, based on their own personal views. We have enough of that to suit me.
Look, I do see your point too and I wasn’t advocating having anyone be warned or banned over it, or post an absolute new rule. Yanno, sometimes just letting people know that it’s preferred to take a fight elsewhere does the trick.
OTOH, when Richard Simmons finally croaks, I will find myself facing a Hypocritical Conundrum of leviathan proportions.
Well… the thing is, we’re a message board, we’re not the funeral or visitation. The true mourners won’t read what we say here. I personally think that rejoicing over anyone’s death is of dubious taste, at best. “Every man’s death diminishes me” and “send not to know for whom the bell tolls” and all that. On the other hand, when we’re talking mass murderers and oppressive dictators, what the hell, I would have happily danced at Stalin’s tomb.
So, perhaps this should be a forum-specific discussion? Clearly, in the Pit, you can say that you hope some celebrity or politician suffers eternal damnation and has only shit-laden baklava to eat. Equally clearly, if someone posted in MPSIMS about the death of a relative, it would be cruel and jerkish to post negative comments: true mourners will see those comments.
In the Cafe Society forum, we discuss the art/entertainment and career of the deceased. Seems to me that includes positive points and negative points. Yes, some people mourn the loss of an artist/entertainer, but it’s a different kind of mourning, I think: we mourn the loss of their future work, rather than suffering a personal loss.
