Personally, I prefer to stand for the unwholesome. Of course, I never claimed to be nice. But I’m pretty sure I’m having a hell of a lot more fun than Jinx. 
I think you nailed it. The girl equivalent to the “nice guy” are the ones who want to have a relationship with a certain guy so much that they let him walk all over them. They give it up when the guy wants it, they put up with being second fiddle to everything else, they get zero intamacy from the guy, etc.
Didn’t Maureen Dowd write a column recently that was basically this complaint?
I’m pretty sure Donnie Osmond has had a hell of a lot more fun than Jinx.
Stranger
I agree.
Shit, I will settle for obviously literate… if she can discuss the book too, then let’s move to the hot monkey sex…
This is exactly why “Nice Guys” irritate me so much. They aren’t content with just whining about how they can’t get/keep a girlfriend, they have to throw in the whole “My only flaw is my excessive VIRTUE! If only all women weren’t from Bizarro World, where good is bad, they’d all be throwing themselves at me like I deserve!” thing. Ugh.
*This is probably the closest thing to a female “Nice Guy”, but to my mind even “Men are intimidated by my intelligence” or “Men only like bimbos” isn’t quite as bad as “Women only like assholes”. I think most people do prefer romantic partners who are roughly their equals in terms of intelligence, and there probably are many men who’d prefer not to date a woman who was a LOT smarter than they were. While Ms. Intimidating Intelligence is almost certainly wrong about why men don’t like her (hint: it’s because she’s obnoxious), at least she isn’t claiming that all men suffer from some inverted value system and that they just don’t know what’s good for them – namely, her.
On the one hand, the catch cry is “Be yourself”. While on the other hand the caveat is “change most of your behaviour” in order to attract a mate.
Life sucks.
I’ve always thought of the “Nice Guy” as the guy who can’t figure out why he has no girlfriend when he’s obviously, “not mean, not ugly, not poor, not bad,” but, if pressed, probably couldn’t tell you a single thing that he is. In other words, he thinks people should be loved for what they’re not.
I’m a bit of a “Nice Girl” in that respect. I’m not ugly. I’m not stupid. I’m not mean. I’m not a lot of bad things. I’m also deeply shy, uninteresting, and rarely get out. So I have no boyfriend. The difference between me and those “Nice Guys” is that I know it.
I’ve never been clear on this…does that mean there’s flung poo?
I agree with most of this, but aren’t the “men are intimidated by my intelligence” women also implying that most men value looks above all else, that they just don’t take the time to appreciate intelligence because they’re too shallow?
(The “nice guy” question has been hashed to bits on this message board, but I’d like to add that many of these guys seem to be upset that really hot women aren’t attracted their “niceness.” They want women to not be so focused on looks, but they are ironically focused on looks. I do agree that women are less likely to be affected by the problem of shopping outside their league.)
It’s an exaggeration, but it works as self justification because it’s so common for women to choose nasty men over men who aren’t nasty. Much less nice. When a serial killer like Richard Ramirez gets fangirl letters and marriage and you are sitting home alone after another failed date, I expect it’s not hard to convince yourself that what women really want is a thug. That’s an exaggeration of the truth, but there are plenty of women like that out there. And it’s a perception that most women seem unconcerned with dispelling.
And frankly demonizing any man who refers to himself as a “nice guy” as a loser and freak doesn’t help that perception. And no, I’m not referring to myself; I’d never be foolish enough to refer to myself as nice around a woman.
For once, I agree with Der Trihs… and this comes from another fella who doesn’t refer to himself as a “nice guy.”
I find it disheartening when women paint these broad stereotypes of the self-described “nice guy.” Is it really so hard to believe that some of these guys are losing out because they get beaten to the punch by men who exude cockiness or who feed women all the right lines? As DT said, it’s all-too-common for women to pick the nasty guys over the ones who aren’t. I don’t doubt that a lot of these “nice guys” are indeed losers, but it seems to me that people tend to paint them with an overly broad brush.
Frankly, it’s frustrating to hear women say things like “Oh, those ‘nice guys’ are just spineless wimps who have not confidence! We know confidence when we see it, and that’s why the people you call ‘jerks’ are successful with women.” As one of my female friends says though, women often overestimate their ability to detect confidence. I’ve found that many guys who are unsuccessful in dating can be very confident in their intellect or other abilities; they’re just less likely to flaunt this in public. Similarly, I think that the “jerks” are like schoolyard bullies. They lack confidence, and so they make up for it by exuding cockiness, arrogance, and a generally unpleasant demeanor.
I’ve seen it, and I think I’ve encountered it on the SDMB too.
While “nice guy” can mean wimpy, unassertive, and all that, I found that in a female context, “nice girl” means “fat”.
Ow.
Well sure, and there are also plenty of guys out there who’ll date a stupid, raging psycho, if she’s really attractive too so the whole “he’s only focused on looks” justification works just as well. They’re both really handy when it comes to either gender avoiding the truth about striking out constantly - the common denominator in these failures is usually yourself.
According to you. I see it differently; I see plenty of foolish men going for looks above everything, and foolish women preferring scum over decent men. The difference IMHO being that men as a group are more willing to admit that they have an obsession with looks, while women as a group want to blame the common female attraction to thuggery on some supposed massive character flaws of any man who refers to himself as nice and on the alleged “confidence” of the thugs in question.
The inherent problem is that, similar to Nice Guys who are not necessarily nice people, I’m So Intelligent Women are not necessarily so intelligent. Often it is said by women who don’t have a clue about the real reasons they are unable to find a partner. So the woman that you meet that makes you think “whoa, crazy neurotic with tons of baggage and whines a lot!” is going home and telling her friends that she is so intelligent that she intimidates you. That’s where she is.
I think the flip side of this is also true, though, that at least on this board, men have been more quick to blame all women for their own dating problems.
Well, who else are we going to blame, silly?
Probably, but I don’t find this as condescending as saying that one’s romantic failures are solely because all members of the opposite sex make decisions that aren’t merely shallow but are totally warped and irrational. If forced to choose, which of these would you consider less arrogant and condescending:
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I can’t get a date because [members of the opposite sex] would rather date a hot-looking idiot than give a chance to someone with my far superior intelligence.
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I can’t get a date because [members of the opposite sex] would rather date a serial killer than give a chance to someone who’s as remarkably kind and good as I am.
If the typical Nice Guy Lament were “Why do women always date handsome jerks (or rich jerks) instead of nice guys like me?” then I’d find them less irritating. Still pretty irritating, but no more so than Ms. “Why do men always date Barbie types instead of intelligent women like me?” At least the latter gives some roundabout acknowledgment that the speaker might actually possess a real flaw (not being attractive enough). She’s very likely wrong about what the true dealbreaker is (her attitude/personality, not her looks or brains), but that’s still a smidgen closer to reality than believing one’s only problem is “I’m just not enough of a jerk!”
I don’t think I’ve ever encountered a true female equivalent to the “Nice Guy”. Although in fairness, there are also very obnoxious female personality types who I believe have no true male equivalents.