Do you ever get scared...

I agree with the cop thing. Many cops would be happy to do something useful at 2 am than nothing (Like my brother who has nothing to do where he is since he works the night shift).

A big dog is also very handy. My mom told me that when they moved into our house, some years later a prowler was out around our house and got into the backyard. Our Samoyed was back there, and all it had to do was woof two times and the guy scrambled up the fence and out to the street (he did get caught by the police, since my mom immediately called them). Most burglars would rather not deal with a dog because the dog draws attention and also often will attack.


‘The beginning calls for courage; the end demands care’

I hate to interupt the gun debate but…Frankie still sleeps with me, so a gun(which in Canada I could never get anyway) OR a knife is out of the question.

I am gonna pick up a baseball bat though…
I thought about the dog idea, I even had temporary custody of a needy pup this summer …(till my best pal Angie convinced me that HER house would be a better place for the pup…she & hubby work shifts so there is always someone home, and they had a lonely 1yr old dog already etc…long story short, the pup was alone too much at my place, and is as happy as a clam with Angie, so, although I miss her,it was the right thing to do. :frowning: )
I cant even commit myself to a hair color right now, so I cant just get a dog for security…wouldnt be fair.

and Bubba…I though we werent gonna tell anyone yet!

Not if you teach them what that weapon is for, what it will do, and how to use it properly.

My father started to teach us firearm safety when we were all about six years old. The first thing he did was hang up a big piece of tarpaper in an old dead tree out back, and then loaded up the 30-gauge. He knelt down behind us, helped us get the shotgun in position and aimed at the tarpaper, and then told us to touch it off. The noise and kick of that shotgun, I will daresay, scared the living daylights out of us, and did more to convince us to leave those things alone than any amount of warnings and/or punishment could ever do. Furthermore, when we looked at the tarpaper, there was a huge ragged hole in it…and Dad was right there pointing it out to us and saying, "You see that? That’s exactly what this thing’ll do to you!"

Thereupon followed ten years of trips to the sandpit for both my sisters and I, with Dad teaching us all how to properly load, unload, clean, field-strip, fire, and safely handle every weapon in the house. By the time I took hunter’s safety in junior high school, I knew more about safely handling firearms than the instructor did. (As part of a firearm familiarization exercise, he handed two of us, me and one other kid, a bolt-action rifle. Of course, they were unloaded, but we didn’t know that. The first thing I did was point the muzzle straight up and ratchet the bolt open and back to make sure the piece was unloaded. The other kid stood there with a bewildered expression on his face, holding the rifle pointed at the instructor’s midsection. I don’t know where the school district dug this instructor up, but they should have left him buried.)

Anyway, that’s how my sister knew how to load the Old Man’s Mauser. (This was a semi-automatic pistol which my uncle returned from Germany with, having picked it up from a dead German paratrooper. I never liked it, myself—too hard to load. You have to use one hand to hold the bolt open when you clear the last round from the clip into the magazine well, or the bolt will slam forward and take off the end of your thumb. Nevertheless, at Dad’s insistance, I knew how to load it, unload it, and fire it safely.)

A weapon is a tool, nothing more. It’s just like an axe or a hammer or a steak knife or an axle jack. If you are properly trained in how to use it and care for it, you have nothing to be afraid of. If the children in the house have a chance to look it your weapons, to handle them, to be taken out and shown what they will do, then the “forbidden fruit” lure of the weapon will evaporate. I will insert the caveat, however, that Dad never kept his weapons loaded when they were in the house. However, we all knew where the ammo was. But we also knew what a weapon that was fired would do…a hell of a lot of damage; and to my knowledge, not one of us ever went out and shot up a school, or something equally moronic. But then, few people have fathers like mine, either. At the present moment, there are three people in the United States of America (discounting members of police organizations and the active duty armed forces) who know how to handle a weapon properly: me, and my two sisters. Maybe some others do as well…but they’ll have to prove it to me. :slight_smile:

Having said all of that, however, my first advice to Kelli would be to get a loud burglar alarm, make sure all your door and window locks are sturdy and secure, and make sure your area is well-lighted. And it never hurts to get to be great buds with your local coppers, either.

Kelli–I completely share that weird fear sensation! As with you, it hits me late at night when I’m trying to sleep. My imagination can come up with the most horrific scenarios. It was especially bad when I first moved into this apartment–I live alone, I’m on the first floor, and location of my apartment within the complex makes it a bit more at risk than my old place–and it took months to adjust.

This was not helped by my very first night in this place. Keep in mind, this is a studio–it’s two open rooms, so when you walk in the apartment, everything is in view. After such a stressful day of moving, I had fallen into a hard sleep when around midnight I heard a very loud crash that bolted me awake. I was mortified when I opened my eyes and saw the blinds by my sliding glass door were swinging back and forth–completely freaked me out. I thought someone had thrown themselves through my door! I lay in bed frozen, listening for anything, until I summoned up the courage to investigate.

Turns out, my large, framed Ansel Adams picture (about three feet tall) had fallen from its mount above my fireplace and shattered. I did NOT need that.

Not to even get into the gun debate, but I must clarify that a woman wielding a knife is a terrible idea and is frowned upon by the police and every self defense expert I’ve listened to.

The simple fact is that you’d merely be arming the intruder. First if he has a gun a knife will provoke him and offer zero protection. If he has a knife, you’ll be easily over matched and again drive him to decisive action.

Using a knife as a weapon is amazingly difficult and takes a very strong individual. It is unlikely that the average woman could do any lethal or prohibitive damage with one against a prepared intruder. A knife is limited by your reach, and the women are far and few between who have longer arms than a man.

A thick coat or a denim jacket and jeans would render most knives useless, and once he gets a grip of that arm, be prepared for that knife to shortly become pressed against your throat or cutting your blouse. Sorry for the graphic image.

Be smart, if you’re against guns (no judgement of whats right or wrong), get a dog. Don’t train the fucking thing to be an attack dog, it’ll just maul the kid down the street, but use it as a deterant, noisemaker and a comfort blanket. If pets are not perfered or allowed get a loud rape whistle and keep it at the nightstand. A can of pepper spray is not a bad choice, but if you have children around make sure its out of reach, and has a good child proof top (test it thouroughly). Also replace these regularly to be sure it maintains its effectiveness.
Alarm systems are excellent, and a motion light is good in Kelli’s situation. I’d have one installed at your door ASAP. That way you’ll know if its just the wind, or a dream. They also make small personal noise makers
(battery powered) that you may want to keep with that pepper spray.

Good luck, and noise is critical. Communication with neighbors is never a bad idea, it also assures you that in case you needed help they won’t just ignore it, and pretend its not happening. (a serious problem in city, and poor neighborhoods)

      • Sorry, I didn’t mean this to end up on the subject of guns. Lighting the perimeter of the house is (I understand) the most effective deterrent. Dogs come a close second.
  • The reason I brought it up was, I have seen more than a couple women “pack knives” for protection and I still have to open jars for them. Is the knife a deterrent to attacking them? Yes. Is it a big deterrent? No, not really.
  • And as for Canada, well, , , let’s just say that I wouldn’t mind betting big money that your government officials have armed guards protecting them when they sleep. What makes their lives worth more than yours? - MC

Self defense and guns: Guns are very effective means of self defense with the proper training. This training MUST include the proper self defense mindset (Peyton Quinn’s “Real Fighting” is an excellent place to start).

Self defense with a gun faces to large problems. The first is the mindset as above. The will to actually use it. And if you are sitting there saying, “Oh I could use it.” you are likely kidding yourself! Especially if you have never fired a gun before! The second problem is accessability. In general, the best place to keep a gun (if you have no kids) is on your nightstand on the OTHER side of your alarm clock or lamp. This way you are unlikely to grab it by accident in the night, but in an emergency you can easily knock the lamp or clock aside and get at it.

If you have kids you have a real problem. Even kids who are educated about guns may decide to play with them. This because a strictly personal decision as to whether you risk leaving the gun in the open or not.

Self defense with a knife: A knife is probably you best means of home defense! However, a knife faces similar problems to the gun. The will to use it becomes that much more difficult since you are up close and personal. My suggestion for women is harnass that “mother bear” instinct. Train yourself to attack as if the attacker was attacking your kids and not you!

A little story (I’ll be brief): Woman is attacked in her home. Attacker beats her and rapes her. She does nothing. Attacker leaves and heads towards the children’s room. Women stabs him in the next several times with scissors.

Women you have the “mother bear” instinct and it is VERY strong. You need to learn to apply it to yourself!

Another story (I’ll be brief): Women in one of my classes states “I don’t think I could ever hit somebody”. I reply “Would you for you kids?”. Her “Of course, I’d kill him if he went after my kids”. Me “Train yourself to think that anybody who is attacking you will attack your kids next”.

A knife also faces the problem of accessibility. Again, I teach people to keep their knife on the nightstand behind the lamp or clock. Keeping it under your pillow could be dangerous (also, it is technically harder to get at something under your pillow than on your nightstand since you are sleeping ON your pillow and hence ON your weapon). If you are going to use a knife as a self defense weapon I suggest actually going and buying a nice long knife rather than using your kitchen knife.

However, for a technical perspective using a knife is not difficult in the slightest. In fact, it is probably easier to use than a gun. The good news is also that you likely already have plenty of knives in the house (I still recommend going and buying one) and your kids generally know enough to leave them alone (they have less mystique than the gun!).

If you are attacked in your home even if you have a gun, unless it is nearby you first goal should be to get out of the home. Your second goal if you can’t is to get to the kitchen! Throw every knife you have at the intruder while you rush with a nice big meat cleaver in your hand!

Knife vs. Gun: This is an age old debate which sees a lot of press on alt.rec.martial-arts. Again, see Peyton Quinn’s “Real Fighting” for some neat little tales about the knife vs. the gun. This post has been long enough, but I’ll try to state briefly that as a means of self defense the gun and knife are probably roughly equal because of the ranges were are talking about. A lot depends on the mindset of your attacker with his gun. This is why it is important to be able to recognize your attacker’s intent so you can take appropriate action.

Final Note: With the knife, remember to thrust at the opponent and not slash. Slashes will hit the arms or shoulders which will be marginal in effectiveness. Several good stabs wounds are very effective. Also, go for the chest not the face.

Apologies for the very long post.


What more could you expect from somebody who lets people kick him to the head?

kb, the simplest thing to do is install exterior lights with motion sensors. They are reasonably priced, and available at Home Depot or other large hardware stores. You may have to make some adjustments to them over a few days (animals can trigger them), but once you have it set, you’re golden. If the light comes on, you’ll be able to see clearly what’s going on outside, which should reduce your fear level significantly. And if someone IS outside, the light coming on will generally scare them off.

Don’t start looking for weapons to protect yourself. To be perfectly blunt, if you’re at the point where you have to use a weapon, the intruder is already in your house. At that point, unless you’re a hardened killer, you’re screwed. And for every story you hear of someone waving a gun around and scaring off a would-be assailant, there’s another story of a family member being accidentally shot (or killed). Don’t be a statistic.

I am gonna invest in a motion sensitive light asap…what an excellent idea guys, thanks.

If someone happens by, the light comes on, and they cant know if its motion sensitive or if I flicked it on 'cause I heard them…brilliant.

Just an amusing sidebar…a few years ago, an intruder broke into the home of the Prime Minister (thats our President) and he was armed with a knife I believe, and as memory serves me, it was the WIFE of the PM who subdued him. She had no gun either.

Guy:

You’re expecting a light to scare off your intruder but you believe a weapon won’t faze him? Seems to be somewhat flawed reasoning.

One of the biggest problems with a using a weapons is people simply draw them. If you are in a situation where you need to draw than you draw and fire. If you don’t need to draw then don’t draw (well, I should say don’t draw and aim, it might not be a bad idea to at least get your hand on your gun, but again if I put all the details of everything you need to know the Straight Dope would run out of web space). It is critical to learn the difference (see Lethal Force Institute under subject Self Defense Continuum or Force Continuum, or anything done my Mas Ayood (boy, I hope I spelled that right)).

Proper training with a weapon and the proper mindset with a weapon is an equalizer against a criminal. If you are serious about self defense arm yourself whether it be with a can of mace, a knife or a gun. Hand to hand is what will not cut it.

Expect your precious security system to be ignored or disabled. If it isn’t great, if it is you better be ready!

A litle story: My father was a bike gang member in his youth. He has since been pardoned so there is no harm in relaying this story. They used to rob this guys store all the time. So this guys buys this big mean-ass dog. When they come into his store during the day he says “I dare you bastards to rob me now”. So they shot the dog and looted the place blind.

My father was hardly a master criminal, mainly break and enters and even he knew how to disable some basic security systems.

Your best defense is YOU and what YOU will DO when all else fails!

P.s. - Alarms are similar. How many of you call the police when you hear a car alarm go off? Do you really expect your neighbours to call if your home alarm goes off? Can you swear to count on it? Willing to bet your life? Most security places will have a call automatically go out to the police or security office. This is a good service to pay for. Note, that some police deptartments are giving out fines though if they get too many false alarms. Check with your local police deptartment and security companies.


What more could you expect from somebody who lets people kick him to the head?

I do get scared. Ever since i was a kid i have had to sleep with the closet doors closed because i would wake up… still in a daze and see people dancing in my clothes. sad but true… now im on my own with a young son and some nights i wake up to every little noise the house makes. I live in a house that is only one floor with a 4 four crawl space under neath and i used to tease people that i had a short family living down there. One night i awoke and i swear to god i heard them talking… its amazing what an active mind and tired body can do to you isnt it

I’ve got to second (or third, or whatever) the statement that using a knife for defense requires a lot of training. Unless you are very skilled, a larger or stronger person can easily take the weapon from you, and then you’re in bigger trouble than when you started.

If you need a way to defend yourself, start learning martial arts. When your body is your weapon, you can’t ever be caught unarmed. (That statement sounds a bit melodramatic, but it’s true.) It takes time to learn the skills that will help in a real fight, but IMHO the training is worthwhile for almost anyone.

Note that if a burglar is armed with a gun, you’re in trouble regardless of how you’re armed. No matter if your reflexes are the faster, your opponent need only twitch one finger to end your life. Even the most skilled martial arts masters think twice before resisting someone with a gun. (Well, they do if they’re smart, anyway. Some hotshots think that their black belt makes them bulletproof. I can’t even express how stupid those guys seem to me.)


Laugh hard; it’s a long way to the bank.

Clarification of my last post: I don’t mean to say that you should spurn weapons in favor of barehanded martial arts. A knife or gun is extremely useful for defense, as long as you are willing and able to use it if you need to.

But if all you know is how to shoot a gun, there will come some time when you’re caught without it; it’ll get jammed, or the ammo won’t fire, or someone will break in while you’re in the bathroom. For situations like this, I think nearly everybody should have some training in how to fight without a weapon.

Once again, this is all IMO.


Laugh hard; it’s a long way to the bank.

AuraSeer: I must disagree. If you are learning the martial arts to handle somebody bigger and stronger than you, than you could end up in huge trouble. Size counts, and it isn’t a minor factor. It is a major factor. Granted, martial arts can overcome that factor but it typically levels the playing field, it doesn’t shift it in favor of the martial artists (but it won’t come close to even levelling the playing field with the large proportion of training that goes on in most martial arts schools).

What would you rather land, two good puncture wounds with a knife or a half dozen good punches? I’ll choose to land the knife wounds everytime.

The “simplicity” of taking a knife away from somebody determined to use it is grossly overexaggerated. This is why self defense against a knife or gun is so difficult in the big leagues (this is also why the nut in the PM house was subdued, IIRC he didn’t have the knife out and was kind of a nut who really didn’t want to hurt anybody). If you want proof of it try doing some real free sparring against a guy with a marker (i.e. not prearranged “I am going to lunge” at you now). Try and take the knife away and see how many nice red marks get on you. Also, try doing some scenarios of knife vs. gun at 15 feet. The results will surprise you (again read Peyton Quinn’s “Real Fighting”).

Using a knife for self defense is very simple from a technical perspective. Using a knife like a professional soldier who can filet you like a fish in 3 seconds is very difficult (I went to a knife seminar taught by a ex-marine … pretty wicked stuff). There is a huge distinction between the two.
Granted it is great if you can learn the skills to be proficient with a knife like a pro, but hardly necessary (just like it is great if you can hit the bullseye of a target at 50 feet everytime with a gun, but this is not the level of skill required to use a gun for self defense). The real problem is getting to the point where you WILL use it, not WHAT to do when you decide to use it.

P.s. - Big leagues is a term used by many self defense people to mean fights against a serious determined opponent (for example, a career criminal), and not your run of the mill schoolyard bully or bar fight. Many people equate fighting experience to shoving matches, the schoolyard and drunken brawls. They are complete different issues.

P.p.s. - BTW, I am not strictly pro-gun. I think we need to have logical gun control measures because frankly there are too many idiots with guns (excluding criminals) who think that a gun is a talisman of protection from harm. Nothing could be further from the truth.


What more could you expect from somebody who lets people kick him to the head?

Also, some alarm companies will give you free installation when you sign a contract with them for monitoring. We pay US$30/month (2-year contract), and we also get a break on the insurance. I don’t think that the insurance discount pays for the alarm system, but we feel much safer knowing that if someone breaks in, the police will know about it.

Another suggestion: if you have a cell phone, keep it by the bed at night. I read that one thing an intruder may do when they break in is take the phone off the hook. That way, even if you have an extension in the bedroom, you can’t use it to call for help. You can get cell phones pretty cheap these days, at least in the US. I hope I’m not scaring you more, Kelli.


The Cat In The Hat

By the way, AuraSeer is dead on right that it is very good to be able to learn to fight when you don’t have a weapon for two reasons.

  1. For fighting when you don’t have a weapon.

  2. Because learning to fight when you don’t have a weapon buys you time to get your weapon out and use it!

Also, I am not anti-spotlights and burglar alarms either. They provide another tool in your home defense. A very valuable tool, but they are not talismans of protection anymore than a black belt, gun or knife.

Great tactic! I can think of nothing that would be more painful than to be stabbed in my next. Remember that, all----if attacked, go for the guy’s next! His next is his most vulnerable point! The next is hard to find, but I think it’s somewhere between the third rib and the left hip.

(Sorry, Glitch, but I just couldn’t resist! :))

Forget about the neighbors. In extreme cases, forget about the cops. The purpose of an alarm is to alert YOU to the fact that there is an intruder in your home----and from there, it’s up to you to decide what to do about it.

I will third this. In fact, I will fourth it and fifth it. The advantage in any confrontation with an an intruder rests in how far you can keep him away from you. With a knife, this is arm’s length. With a gun, it’s unlimited, for all practical purposes. Besides, the guy is likely to be bigger, younger, faster, tougher, meaner, nastier, and more ruthless than you. I wouldn’t want to tackle somebody with a knife. Actually, for home defense purposes, the best idea is UncleBeer’s:

You can cure the downside of the longer barrel by having the weapon cut down, which will give you an even wider pattern for close range fire, which would include anything inside a house, unless of course you live in Versailles. And yes, I know, cutting down a shotgun is illegal in most jurisdictions. There is such a thing as being law-abiding-----and dead.

Finally, I will apologize for adding to the devolvement of this thread into a debate about the relative merits of various types of weaponry, when all Kelli really wants is way to stay safe and feel secure. But when it comes to weapons, the amount of misinformation out there is incredible. No wonder we have so many shootings in this country.

Just another point (okay two points) of clarification.

  1. I meant neck not next. Thanks Mr. Picky. :slight_smile:

  2. A gun is superior to a knife. A knife is superior to the hand. The hand is better than nothing at all. But the knife is not useless (and it is not simple to take a knife from somebody, only in the movies), and it closer to effectiveness to the gun than the hand is to the knife. Example: On a scale of 1-10.

Gun - 9
Knife - 7
Hand - 3
Nothing - 0

Please don’t take the numbers literally. I am not saying that a knife is 2.3 superior to the hand, and a gun is only a mere 1.3 times better than a knife.


What more could you expect from somebody who lets people kick him to the head?

Pickman, my experience with firearms is remarkably similar to your’s, even to the tarpaper and shotgun display. Us kids were all taught safety first. Assume all guns are loaded until you verify otherwise and still handle them as if they were loaded. It constantly amazes me how many people shoot themselves or others; it really isn’t difficult to handle guns safely.

Another interesting point about knives is they never run out of ammunition. Just make sure you have a good one with a heavy blade. You could easily break the thin blade of a kitchen knife.

As an aside to Auraseer, I don’t know what your experience with firearms is, but the risk of a gun jamming or otherwise becoming disabled is relatively low if you keep it in good working order. It also helps to take it out and try different types of bullets and powder combinations. You’ll find that some work better than others; keep it loaded with what works best. I have a Browning Buckmark Target .22 with about 22,000 rounds of use. I can’t recall more than a couple of incidents of jamming. And those were caused by using cheap ammo.

How the hell did this thread get so far off topic. I think I must have helped with my earlier shotgun comments. Sorry Kelli.

By the way Kelli, get a motion sensing light, alert the neighbors and lock the doors.


“The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind.” - Humphrey Bogart