My son says no way, that audiences would simply not accept this. I countered by pointing out the recasting of Peter Parker, Bruce Banner, and Bruce Wayne; but he says those were in different universes, and audiences understand that, while in the MCU it would be the same universe and audiences would find that too jarring.
Terrence Howard, from the first Iron Man (which was the start of the current MCU), was replaced by Don Cheadle.
I think there will be another Ironman and Captain America…this has happened in the comics, after all…but I don’t think they will recast them to be the exact same character, no. Instead, someone else (new) will pick up the mantle. Bucky seems a natural for Cap. Ironman could be anyone.
My own WAG about Avengers 4 is one or both of them will die, for sure Cap will IMHO, sacrificing themselves for everyone else.
Eventually, the actors will move on, ask too much for the role, become too old for the role, or die. Marvel is not going to let any of these kill their cash cow. It wasn’t exactly impossible for DC to change the Joker, Superman, and Batman over the years.
A new actor will be cast in the role. People will accept it because most people understand that it’s what happens for any long-term franchise. The success or failure of the change will depend on how good the actor is and how good the movie turns out.
Edward Norton’s Hulk is the same guy as Mark Ruffalo’s Hulk - you can tell because Tony Stark shows up in the end credits scene. Also, Rhodey got recast between Iron Man movies. So there’s some precedent there, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that general audiences will accept someone new in these roles. On the other hand, they’ve rolled with it on five separate occasions with the Bond franchise, so who knows?
I don’t think it’s impossible. Whether or not it’s a success would depend on who they find to replace Downey or Evans.
Or the studio might decide to follow the lead of the comic books and put new characters into the superhero roles. Have Don Cheadle as Jim Rhodes become Iron Man or Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes become Captain America. That way they can maintain the character without breaking continuity.
That is because Terrance Howard demanded top billing and comparable salary to Robert Downey, Jr. even though he was a sidekick and frankly not very good in the role. Don Cheadle was an improvement all way around. Ditto for replacing the self-aggrandizing Ed Norton for Mark Ruffalo, whose performance as Banner in The Avengers, Age of Ultron, and Thor: Ragnorak was definitive.
It is clear that Marvel is either going to kill off or retire the characters of Steve Rogers and Tony Stark in the still-untiled Avengers IV: Just Give Us All Your Money. The superhero identities will likely be transferred to other characters (something they’ve been setting up for Captain America since The Winter Soldier) or also retired but replaced by a similar character. (Black Panther’s Shuri would be a good replacement for “Genius, Billionaire, _______, Philanthropist”, and Chris Pratt is the obvious choice for a new arrogant wisecracking rogue, depnedingo on what happens with Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 3. At this point, the original characters—of which only Hulk and Captain America had any general public presence prior to being introduced into the MCU—can go away and be replaced by any of a spate of other lower tier characters, or Marvel could attempt to integrate other. properties since reclaimed or licensed back from Fox and Universal, like the X-Men (although I think that would be a mistake).
But please, no Fantastic Four in the MCU; they are the cinematic equivalent of a Chrysler K-car; terrible in every way and yet they keep showing up over and over as someone tries to reinvigorate the platform. Ugh!
They have already said they are going to integrate the X-Men into the MCU, and I do not agree that’s a mistake. Nor do I share Stranger’s antipathy for the FF: they were always one of my favorite comics, so I think they just need the MCU’s guiding hand to be a success.
Yeah, this is my take (and I liked RealityChuck’s as well).
Little Nemo, I generally agree with yours, but I’d nitpick your reference to “breaking continuity”. I don’t believe recasting breaks continuity per se, although that may be another interesting question to explore!
To be fair to Terrance Howard, he was paid $3.5 million in the first Iron Man, while Downey Jr. was only paid $2.5 million. So, the precedent had been established.
Whoa, really? That’s…weird. I understand that RDJ was on a downswing of his career before this, but how was Howard a big enough star to get more money than the guy who is obviously in the lead role?
…I’m sure they would recast if they had too.
But they don’t have too. Both Downey and Evans have indicated they are happy to move on. New properties like Black Panther have made billions of dollars and I’m sure that Captain Marvel isn’t going to disappoint. Feige seems keen to move on with new stories, keeping the universe fresh, which I think is the right thing to do.
So yeah they could. But no they won’t.
Who’s ‘they’ who have said they will integrate X-Men into the MCU? As far as I know, they haven’t even finalized anything, including the buyback, so it’s all still up in the air.
The thing is, people are tired of reboots and origin stories, and I don’t think this would be a winning strategy going forward for the MCU. Instead, it would make more sense to have someone else pick up the mantle of a deceased character. Steve Rogers dies, but someone needs to be Captain America, so someone would pick up his mantle and go forward. Same with Ironman…Tony Stark is dead, but a new Iron Man steps up. It’s not Tony Stark, but it IS Ironman. Trying to recast a new Tony Stark would be, IMHO, a disaster…same with Steve Rogers.
I agree with you that Fantastic 4 should definitely be integrated into the MCU, assuming Disney actually gets those (and X-Men) properties back. It’s one of the big comics and it’s a shame it hasn’t been done well. I’d be on board with (assume Disney actually gets the properties) the current X-Men cast (except Wolverine of course)…I think they would work. Or just bring in a few (new ones) at a time into the MCU.
Yeah, another vote for “they’ll find new actors for Iron Man and Captain America, but not Tony Stark and Steve Rogers”. Get the pathos for killing off major characters, but while still milking the cash cow for all it’s worth.
And the Fantastic Four (if done properly, which they can be) would have fit in fine with the MCU, if they had been able to do it a few years ago, but now it’s probably too late, because they’d have to account for where they were in Infinity War. But the X-Men have never really fit in in the same universe as the rest of the Marvel heroes.
They’ve spent a decade building up towards the conclusion of their stories, they are not recasting them.
Downey signed a multi-picture contract that gave him significant points from the gross future movies which has made him one of the wealthiest actors in Hollywood. And at that point in his career, $2.5M was nothing to sneeze at after getting kicked off a gig on Ally McBeal for drugging up, and subsequently getting work only because fellow actors like Mel Gibson, Jodie Foster, and director Shane Black putting up personal bonds to get insurance approval to cast him in films. Howard was a medium-star at that point and was not then know for being a difficult and mentally unstable person, and was therefore “worth” that much even though he gave a terrible performance.
Since when does ACTUAL logic make any difference in this “universe”?
There will be a a new Captain America and a new Iron Man. There is zero doubt of that.
The more important question is “when?” If they choose to do it right away, recasting is the easiest but also the most risky move. They could try and write it into the story using either alternate realities or a passing of the mantel which would please comic fans the most, but would require casual movie watchers to keep up.
My personal theory is that they will wait. I think Evan’s Rogers and Downey’s Stark each “die” at the end of A4, like totally, officially dead. They start cranking out new MCU movies in whatever the version of the world exists post-Infinity War and Cap and Stark aren’t a part of it.
Then, after some sufficient time passes (like years) you’ll see a new Captain America surface in the end credits for, say, the 3rd Black Panther movie and a new Iron Man at the end of the 4th Spiderman. How they explain it will be interesting, are they new characters who simply adopt the mantel? Are they characters we already know taking the mantel? Are they different versions of Steve & Tony that somehow appear out of an alternate timeline/reality?
They certainly have teased the idea that Bucky will be the next Cap and Rhodey will trade his War Machine suit for the Iron Man suit, but I personally think they’ll go a different direction. Bucky might take on a Cap-like leadership role, he may even use the shield at some point, but he won’t be Captain America because we already know him too well as Bucky Barnes. Same with Rhodes, he’s no billionaire playboy and he’s no technical genius, it would lose way to much to have him adopt the mantel. The MCU is just trying to distract us with these hints and rumors.
If I had to bet, I’d guess that they’ll develop totally new characters who will have these mantels bestowed upon them by someone like Bucky/Rhodes/Fury in some grand gesture. The alternate reality idea would be interesting…but ultimately a little too comic-book nerd for the movies.
Some have predicted that Earth in the post-snappening world will be a totally different place, a complete reset, which is an option, but that probably means they recast everyone which would be seriously ballsy, too ballsy for Disney.
The Fantastic Four have always been kind of their own thing; they could be a side team in the MCU like The Guardians or The “Revengers”, but the general story arc that the individual MCU properties have followed is in bringing together a team despite their differences and sometimes violent disagreements. The Fantastic Four don’t really quite follow that line, and besides, the Sue Storm of the comes is really, really dumb. I’m sure someone could make a great FF film (Pixar managed to do it in all but name) but there is no pressing reason why it should be in the MCU. Not every Marvel property can or should be jammed into the MCU.
The X-Men make absolutely no sense in the MCU. The whole Mutants vs. Normies conflict is kind of central to the mythos of the X-Men, and while the MCU has the Accords, that is not the same kind of genetic prejudice/eugenics type of conflict. The MCU attempted to insert off-brand mutants in the form of Inhumans, but after dropping the movie for insertion into Agents of SHIELD and then a standalone Inhumans show that was so terrible that nobody really even acknowledges it, they’ve given up on it. The X-Men also already have an established cinematic narrative (even if its continuity is worse than a hampster running a time machine) and that would have to be deconstructed and somehow,reintegrated into the MCU. Marvel already has plenty of stories to tell and characters to use without introducing the X-Men. And besides, the entire X-Men universe post-Hugh Jackman is going to get hijacked into being a sideline of the Deadpool and Friends Universe (DFU). Disney can’t cope with being associated with a director who made some off-color jokes in jest years before he worked for them; they can’t afford all the “fucks” in a Deadpool-driven cinematic universe, and are going to have to find some way to firewall themselves off if they do complete a acquisition/merger with Fox.
It took me a while to figure out why this seemed “off”. Then I pictured superheroes passing around a fireplace shelf.
I totally agree. Except on one point, its impossible to make a good Fantastic Four movie. It’s way too cheesy and they’ve failed too hard, too recently. A cartoon might be the only option here, and really, I hope they just let that shit go. There’s way better stuff out there to explore. I will miss having a decent Dr. Doom though.
I also think you have a too limited view of Disney here. When they fully own Fox, you can be damn sure that Disney, maybe under some other branding, will crank out R-rated Deadpools, Gambits, Blades, and Ghost Riders (not to mention the Alien franchise). Hell, Punisher and Daredevil are TV-MA. They do need to keep it mostly separate from the MCU/Avengers cash cow, but they won’t walk away from all that straight cash homey.