I’m getting that same sinking feeling I had during the Reagan campaigns, when I couldn’t believe how the American voter was being had bigly by a gigantic con man. And liked being had.
My first instinct on that was to say, “That can’t be right…” so I went to the link, and then to the poll they got that info from. The page they cite actually references a different poll- one which shows that support for removing Trump should be be impeached is softening.
However, I did find a poll which says that Trump is leading the Democrat candidates… if you include all of the candidates. Which kind of makes sense, if you think about it, as there are several potential Democrat candidates and only one Republican candidate. The votes for the Democrat candidates are being split multiple ways in this poll.
Nothing needs to be inherent (nor genetic) for your results to skew (badly) one way or the other. Lots of things to consider in that, primarily CHOICES each group makes.
LIFE is not fair. Life is a set of opportunities and what each person does with them.
We STRIVE for equality of opportunity. We can NEVER reach equality of outcome.
And yet… here we are… again … and again… and again…
A one word response destroys your thesis.
Choices
Depends on the group and depends on the contest.
No it doesn’t. At all. Explanation below.
No it doesn’t depend on group or context. It depends on if you think all human beings are in fact human beings. If you think you can predict a person’s choices based on what groups you perceive them being a part of, then you are not being impartial. You are valuing certain groups over other groups inherently. Even if you aren’t consciously doing it. Individuals make choices. They do not make those choices because of what societal groups they happen to be put into or classified as. Would you be ok with it if I assumed all of the choices you will make in your life simply based on your religion, or color, or the language that you spoke, or whether you prefer Star Wars to Star Trek?
Let me ask you this. Do you think that equality of opportunity has no relation to outcomes at all? If we truly had equality of opportunity for every individual in our society do you think outcomes would be in general more likely to be better for everyone on average, than if we do not have equality of opportunity? It sounds like you are arguing that giving every single person equality of opportunity would have zero bearing on outcomes. That would be nonsense.
I find it weird that there could be a consistent 10 point swing in the span of 2 days, but I can’t find anything to imply that the polls had all of the Democratic candidates included at the same time. They did include a generic third party candidate, though, so I guess some people might hold out hope their pet primary hopeful would run third party.
It absolutely does. But it’s tangential to the op so start a new thread and I will give you several obvious examples.
So you believe that we live in a truly fair society, in which race and ethnicity (and other factors) are totally irrelevant to chances at success? If you believe that, then this is where our disagreement lies. I don’t believe we live in such a society.
No it doesn’t. Individuals are individuals. Only if you think some groups are inherently better than others can you use group status to prejudge people and assume what their choices will be.
Tell you what, my statement stands. If you want to start a thread go ahead. Otherwise I’ll assume the conversation is over.
Simple proof. How many ladies are in the NFL and NBA?
I was 7 years old in 1984, ut my impression was that the 1984 election was a no doubter. Was there actually a point where people thought that Mondale actually had a chance, even if only 50/50? I assume that even when looked at from the point of view of Your Average Voter December 1983 that it was obvious who was going to win.
What makes you think this has anything to do with what I said?
Equality of opportunity in society leading to improvement in outcomes for society does not mean everyone should be an NBA or NFL player. That’s asinine.
It seems you have some very strongly vested interest in believing that certain groups are inherently less than other groups. The NBA and the NFL are a red herring. You need to do some self reflection to understand why you find this idea so reflexively repellent.
Personal attacks and goal post shifting?
You said equal opportunity would lead to equal outcomes for all groups. What you said is 100% wrong. You also don’t need to resort to personal attacks when proven wrong.
Apologies for the double post.
Either way, I’d happily take the ghost of Nixon, Reagan, or Bush Sr., or Bush Jr. (either as he was while president or the current day version) over Trump. None of them would give me the sinking feeling that we both have over the possibility of a Trump victory.
What personal attack? I called the argument it sounded like you are making asinine. That is attacking an argument not a person. If that isn’t your argument then you could have just clarified, but you have not.
Also I did not say that at all, so no goal post shifting. I never said equal opportunity would lead to equal outcomes for all groups. Why do you feel the need to lie about what I said? Do you need to do that in order to defend your position? Here is what I said:
"If you do believe this, then you would not expect equality of opportunity to correlate to equality of outcome.
If you believe that all people have potential and that one type of person is on average equal to other types of people, then you would expect equality of opportunity across all types of people to lead to a closer equality of outcome for everyone."
Either argue with what I actually said, or bugger off. But don’t lie about what I said. That’s bullshit.
To get back on topic…
Trump easily wins in 2020.
Nope.
There, I can pull assertions out of my ass too.
I think I worded my post poorly. No, it was pretty clear early on that Mondale had little chance. The “sinking feeling” I’m referring to is the recognition that there are so damned many voters who happily support these right wing assholes.
Donald Trump can be awful beyond belief and almost appears to be gaining support by being so.
There’s that fucking confidence again. No reasons given, no factual support offered, just “Trump will win, I’m certain of it.”