http://blogs.villagevoice.com/forkintheroad/2011/10/greenwich_villa_2.php
The video.
Yikes.
On the one hand, he was definitely provoked. It looks like they hit him first. On the other hand, Jesus H., he kept going WAY past the point that the woman had been subdued.
From what I could see the customer smacked him first and he had every right to push her back.
Hell, they came around the counter and IMHO came after him and he was probably in the right to defend himself because from what we could see in the video they certainly looked like they were ready to take him down.
Having said that, he went waaaaay overboard. Clearly at some point he switched from defense to offense and I’m not sure where exactly that point is.
I see from the article they both got in trouble, him more then them and even without the criminal record, that sounds right. He took it too far when he continued to beat them after they were on the ground.
ISTM, that if he had stopped somewhere around 39 seconds, when he was just waving the metal pipe around (and making a lot of racket), the only thing that would have come of it would be that the girls would have been arrested for hitting him. If there was any thing he did wrong in swinging the pipe around, maybe the cops would have offered to just drop the whole thing if everyone just walked away peacefully.
ETA, the fact that they came around the counter and he almost seemed ready for it makes me think that there’s some prior history between him and the girls. I’m willing to bet if you follow the story, more will come out of it. It doesn’t make sense. Too much happened over too little. I’m betting they know each other somehow. Exes, babydaddy, he robbed her house…something…you just don’t beat the crap out of someone like that because they slapped you and you don’t slap someone because they want to check a 50 to make sure it’s real.
Fuck 'em. They started it.
Yeah, I agree completely with this. Everyone’s behavior in this incident seemed way over-the-top and disproportionate to what was actually going on.
Bahhh… I can’t see the video…but you attack ME first, particularly two of you, you’ll be lucky to still be breathing if I get the upper hand because once I get it I am making sure I keep it…I ain’t fighting fair, I’m fighting to stay alive/unharmed. And even if he went too far I bet those to “girls” think twice before fucking with someone in the future.
Once someone has been subdued and is lying in a heap on the floor, it is OK to stop beating them with the metal pipe. They are in no danger of making you stop being alive at that point.
Its optional
Did I see this wrong: At soon as she hit him, he pushed her back and then went straight for the back of the restaurant where he got the metal rod. He wasn’t trying to flee from her or defend himself; he decided she was going to get it.
Just like punctuation. (heeey-o!)
MichaelEMouse, that’s what it looked like to me as well, but it’s kind of hard to see to be sure.
Wait till you see the video. It would be like if I slapped you across the cheek so you decided to hit me with a crowbar…10 or 15 times. They didn’t really ‘attack’ him (or at least they didn’t have time to in before he got the pipe).
It’s optional if you don’t mind going to jail. But if you want to follow the letter of the law, you have to stop ‘defending’ yourself as soon as there’s nothing left to defend. Once those girls where on the floor he had to stop hitting them. He waited several seconds and then went back and took another swing at them. That’s either severe anger problems or some sort of personal issue with them, not self defense.
Bahh…
I’m getting that bullshit “women are allowed to slap people” vibe…don’t bring a palm to crowbar fight.
Yes, “he should have stopped beating her with the pipe after she was lying on the floor incapacitated” is exactly the same as “women are allowed to slap people.” Good analysis.
Bill,
I usually quite like you as a poster. Your general smartassness does not go unappreciated.
I can see why you would say what you’ve posted, not having seen the video.
I also dislike gender roles and the idea that gender-wise, hitting is only allowed to go one way.
But the guy went way too far.
Its a life lesson. Don’t start with violence and expect it won’t escalate. I’d bet good money these girls KNEW he was a bad ass and did it anyway because they just couldn’t help themselves. Don’t get me wrong, I hope they don’t suffer any permanent injury. But you slap somebody and piss em the hell off there aint no guarantee their primative monkey brain ain’t going to take over.
They jumped the fucking counter first. Yes, he went too far, but they deserved a few of those crowbar hits.
Joe
Another life lesson is that if your opponent is down on the ground incapacitated and you keep attacking there will be unfortunate consequences.
I really would withhold any opinion until I saw the video if I were you. While I agree with you in principle, the video itself is appalling. He was swinging that pipe against those girls’ defenseless bodies on the ground like they were slab of beef being tenderized.
I don’t think so. I can hear her say something to the effect of, “And that one back there with the ponytail!”. Makes me think they don’t know eachother.
I think they just chose the wrong* one to fuck with. It happens when you jump counters like real bad asses.
*and by ‘wrong’ I mean ‘fucking batshit bananas’.