Some defects are not detectable earlier in the pregnancy. This cite gives some reasons. This is from a French study, but I’m reasonably certain that the reasons would be comparable to those in America:
Note: you could have done some research yourself, but it’s much easier to post snide, accusatory “questions” about a woman’s motivation for a third trimester abortion. Note also that none of the above reasons resembles “really really really doesn’t want the baby.” All are tragic and would be heartbreaking news to a woman in her third trimester.
And, you know, heaven forfend you should find out what those perfectly justifiable reasons might be before posting. I’m sure a woman who really really really didn’t want a baby would carry that child to the third fucking trimester and then up and decide to terminate. Ridiculous, ignorant, and really doesn’t pass the proverbial “smell test.”
What really bothers me is your willful ignorance here. You’d rather post from that ignorance than make the effort to educate yourself first. The links exist in this very thread, but rather than read them, you post AGAIN, snidely, from that same ignorance. Try for a second trying some reading, and get back to me.
Ironically, I’m against abortion personally, though pro-choice politically, and as a person in the final weeks of second trimester, I can tell you that, finding out now that my child was so damaged that my situation warranted a third trimester abortion would be fucking horrendous and is barely something I can think about. Your insensitive and snide comments are incredibly wrongheaded. Please rethink them carefully before posting again, I beg of you.
This link does note a very few not-as-dire-as-others cases (still pretty bad), but with such a need for late-term abortions, even some abortion providers who respected Tiller are troubled by it.
I posted a question about one hypothetical woman’s motivation for a third trimester abortion.
Indeed. Is it your position then that all of the abortions performed in the three clinics I’ve mentioned meet the criteria you just posted? It would be hard to take your position any other way, since you don’t seem to feel there are any other, lesser reasons why a woman might seek a late-term abortion.
Well, then, try this on for size: let’s say Becky Bonehead falls in love with Skater Boi and swears their love will last till the end of time. She gets pregnant and is thrilled at the prospect of having Skater Boi’s baby. Then along about the seventh, eighth or ninth month of her pregnancy, she finds out that Skater Boi’s been bangin’ her best friend and gotten her pregnant too. And then, just to rub salt in the wound of eternal love lost, she finds out Skater Boi is gonna marry the other girl (either that or he skips town…same result either way).
So now she can’t stand the thought of this baby that is growing inside her. She hates Skater Boi and damn sure doesn’t want to have his baby. She doesn’t even want the damn thing inside her anymore because it came from him, plus she damn sure doesn’t want to be raising his kid and sacrificing the best years of her young life in the bargain.
So, does she go off to Kansas to get a partial-birth abortion? And does the doctor, perhaps liberal of mind and of the belief that the government has no right to tell a woman what to do with her own body, decide that, why yes, this situation is certainly dire enough to justify a late-term abortion. And, if it doesn’t actually meet the legal definition of dire, well, in his opinion it should and so he lists a fictitious medical emergency as his justification and performs the abortion anyway.
So in other words, my question went more to the mindset of the doctors performing the abortions and what they regard as dire than to the woman who ‘really, really, really’ didn’t want her baby.
Well, frankly, if everyone here stopped in their tracks every time they read something that triggered or reminded them of a question and set about to find out the answer elsewhere, there would not only be a decided lack of ignorance-fighting going on around here, but a lot of people would be taking for granted their own ability to ferret out the complete and accurate information necessary to settle the issue definitively themselves.
So I don’t think that I nor anyone else should constrain themselves from asking a question or positing an opinion here without attempting to get to the bottom of it elsewhere first.
Well, first of all, congratulations on your pregnancy!
Having said that however, I think you’re internalizing this too much and perhaps being a little melodramatic in the bargain. There are many scenarios, legitimate and otherwise, involved in the question of abortion in this country that have absolutely nothing to do with you or the specifics of what you’re going through, and it’s the abortion question in the main (and the killing of Dr. Tiller and the goings-on at his and the other abortion clinics) that is under discussion here. Respectfully, you need to stop taking things so personally and/or viewing them solely from the perspective of your own mindset, your own situation, and your own pregnancy.
P.S. - I’ve been trying to look at the link outlining Kansas’ definition of dire but the site keeps timing out. Maybe tomorrow.
Death due to pregnancy is rising in the US. Maybe you don’t hear about them because it’s a heart-wrenching decision, a private medical issue that is none of your business, or possibly because it’s attitudes like yours that make it even more painful to share the details with someone who is pre-judging them as casual murders.
The thread is about Dr. Tiller. He lived in a state where elective third trimester abortion was illegal. Therefore, it’s safe to say that yes, all the abortions performed in Dr. Tiller’s clinic were for medical reasons and were not performed on otherwise normal, viable fetuses. I can’t say for certain about the other two clinics, but I’ll go out on a limb and say that yes, I bet you that the vast majority, if not all the late term abortions performed there were for medical and not frivolous reasons.
What your moronic story fails to take into account is that, by the third trimester, hormones have been hard at work attaching this mother to be to her unborn child. I find your scenario highly unlikely, and I can say for a fact that it never happened at Dr. Tiller’s clinic.
I’ll cop to being overly emotional if you’ll cop to being snide and insensitive, and failing to educate yourself adequately before making comments. Otherwise, no deal.
No, my dear, it’s your retarded Sk8r Boi scenario that has nothing to do with the abortions performed at Dr. Tiller’s clinic. I’ve provided a fact based argument here, despite my own emotional biases, and you haven’t. As per usual.
Oh my fucking GOD. Is this Starving Artist telling ME to stop viewing things from personal bias? If you could do that for a millisecond I think your head would explode and you’d realize what arrant nonsense you’ve been spouting for decades. Physician, heal thyself.
How about a perspective that seems even the slightest bit aware of what is involved in being pregnant and/or procuring an abortion (no Avril Lavigne-inspired hypotheticals needed)? I welcome that.
Please provide one scintilla of evidence that my “personal bias” is incorrect. First, actually try to define what you think my personal bias is, because I think you have it horrendously wrong. Otherwise, I will have to ask you for an apology, since it is YOUR bias (that there are women out there who are terminating pregnancies in the third trimester when the fetus is perfectly normal and viable) that is incorrect, and which has been refuted by cites. And shove your where the sun don’t shine, because this “oh the pregnant lady is emotional” crap is a low blow and doesn’t negate actual cites or a fact based argument. Try being objective yourself once in a while before you spout off. Just fucking TRY it. You might like not talking out your ass, who knows?
Nah, I’m pretty much done with you. Time after time I’ve tried treating you with respect and consideration and friendliness and I’ve been met with nothing but rudeness and insults for my trouble. So I’ve pretty much gone back to thinking of you as the nasty, hotheaded, unreasonable pain-in-the-ass that you originally showed yourself to be during the Quiddity Glomfuster era.
And yeah, an accusation of insensitivity followed by an entreaty ‘begging’ me to reconsider my posts does sound melodramatic and over the top. Still, I’ve been wondering just what it is that I’ve said that is so insensitive and hurtful. We’ve been talking about abortion clinics and the definition of dire. Lots of things fall under that umbrella, and if you or anyone else is such a delicate flower that you find my questions all that unsettling, you’d be well advised to stay the hell out of the thread to begin with.
No. It wasn’t. RNATB stated that no brain waves exist prior to the 20th week or some such, and then when I posted photos of 21- and 23-week fetuses surviving and thriving outside the womb, everybody started splitting hairs over the fact that 21 and 23 weeks is not the same as 20. :rolleyes:
Either way, Starving Artist, things aren’t always black or white as you seem to think. I have no idea WHY you’re determined to believe that most late-term abortions are elective, but I find your comments disgusting and misogynistic. Just your usual shithead self.
If you want to tell yourself that a 20-week fetus is just a mindless glob of tissue that miraculously turns into what can be a normal (in terms of movement, nervous system, brain activity, response to stimulous and care-givers), survivable preemie one week later, I’m not gonna waste my time arguing with you. But you’re wrong.
And of course they’re not all viable. Some babies aren’t viable at full-term. Some babies die after they’re born. Such is life, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the normal rate at which fetuses develop.
Perhaps you have no idea because I’ve never said any such thing.
And stuff that misogynistic crap. You sound like some of the feminists of 20 years ago who claimed that no woman would ever lie about rape. There are all sorts of reasons why women might seek late-term abortions, and not all are noble and proper. Pointing that out hardly makes me a misogynist.
where the sun don’t shine, because this “oh the pregnant lady is emotional” crap is a low blow and doesn’t negate actual cites or a fact based argument. Try being objective yourself once in a while before you spout off. Just fucking TRY it. You might like not talking out your ass, who knows?