Doctor who performed abortions shot to death.

The BBQ Pit
161

Well, why don’t we worry about that when the issue comes to aborting slugs?

Take a look at the second link I posted, the one of the twenty-one-week-old premie. She is gripping the hose running into her nose; she is looking at her caregiver with open eyes; she is wearing a diaper, which indicates that her internal organs are processing her food and eliminating her waste. She is clearly
a fully-formed, functioning and feeling human being!

Your ‘viability’ argument is as specious and groundless as most of your other blatherings.

Uh…no. Where did you get that from?

It isn’t surprising because it’s what your defective brain keeps telling you.

And you’re just as wrong about that now as you were the first time you said it and the jillions of times you’ve said it since.

What about abortions of babies at twenty-one weeks and up?

And I think you’re a psychotic wacko. I wonder which of us is considered most correct.

He may have been under constant legal harrassment, but not by people like me. I prefer education to violence, and I believe that once people learn how just how early on in pregnancy fetuses become developed into actual moving, feeling, thinking and physiologically developed human beings, the less likely it is that they will favor aborting them once they’ve reached that stage.

But then I’m talking about rational people. I don’t expect you to understand.

You know, you really need to let this go. You’re doing yourself no favors at all in this thread. You look like a silly, immature child sticking his fingers in his ears and going la-la-la-la-la when confronted with something he doesn’t want to hear.

The cites are up and you’ve done nothing but spout inanities ever since. I’m happy to let each of our posts stand on their own merit.

162

Do you really not realize that you’re one of those people that’s so vile that they put off everyone to their cause? That you’re doing more damage than good?

Do you really believe that, without deviation, every single person who has a moral stance against abortion only desires to hurt women and has no concern whatsoever for the fetus?

163

Like you doing something as childish and not allowed in the SDMB, like changing names on a quote?

Do tell.

The last post demonstrated that you are a willful ignorant regarding timelines.

You bet my posts will stand the test of time.

I will link to this exchange in the future as yet another bit to link to if (hah!) another poster thinks that you are trustworthy.

164

Yes. Yes, he does. The entire world is monochrome, everything that isn’t soot is whitewash, and only DT is honest enough to call it the way it is. Haven’t you been paying attention?

165

You are the one who chose a definition that applied to slugs.

Oh, and you can read minds then ? Any animal can produce waste, and as far as looking that just means the eye’s tracking system in online.

No, it’s the one that is used in the real world.

You said that you would only allow an abortion if the mother’s life was in danger, which means that you WOULD force her to give birth to a dead baby. Out of sadism, no doubt.

Which means you intend to lie, and not show them, for example of headless fetuses whose brain never developed. Or of women dying in childbirth because people like you forced her to it.

Abortion is neither legally nor morally murder.

So am I committing murder if I scratch myself and kill a few cells ? Your definition of “human” doesn’t make a fetus more valuable; it just degrades the term “human”.

I’m tired of people like you saying that we have to pretend that the scum of the earth are reasonable people. It’s attitudes like yours that have lead to the far right and religious fanatics taking ever more power in this country, at least in part because we aren’t supposed to condemn them no matter how awful they are. We are always supposed to pretend it’s only a few bad apples even when we are drowning in apples.

They either are that way, or are enablers of those who are. Since when did a group have to have Borglike uniformity before it could be condemned ? The “pro-life” movement has again and again demonstrated zero concern for the children it claims motivate it. and shown no respect for life; and immense concern with hurting women. I really don’t care if a few of it’s supporters are actually foolish enough to believe it’s transparent propaganda.

Oh, please. I’ve never said that. I HAVE said that some issues are clearly good versus evil, and this is one. We have the ignorant, woman hating religious fanatics on one side, and the women who want control of their own bodies, and to live on the other.

166

Your attitude is far more similar to the far right and religious fanatics than mine. Oh, I realize you don’t agree with their politics, but the hysterical unthinking hatred you have that taints your views, your demonization of those who disagree with you, the arrogance to cling to a cause with nearly religious fantacism with the unshakable faith that you are right and good and those who disagree with you are irredeemably evil… you are very much like them.

Seriously, reread that paragraph you wrote, only replace “far right” with “far left” and “religious fanatics” with “communists” and you sound exactly like a freeper.

167

Oh, please. It’s a fallacy that the true position is always in the middle. And another that the other side is never outright evil. “You condemn them, so you must be wrong !” is a ridiculous argument.

As for “demonizing” people, they’ve done that to themselves without any help from me. You know, what with assassinating doctors and such.

168

Well, I would have, but I only just found the thread.

Yay, abortions! Go, girl!

169

I’m not advocating that your position is wrong because it’s an extreme, but because it’s clear to everyone reading this thread that you are not rational about this sissue.

It is pretty much true that no group so large as the hundreds of millions (billions?) of people around the world who oppose abortion are outright evil. Some are probably evil, some misguided, some have different values, etc. To ascribe no possible motivation but one very specific one to such a large and diverse group is further evidence that you are not rational.

Do you think all Muslims are evil because a small minority are terrorists?

If somewhere around 100 million adults in the US oppose abortion, and one every few years acts on it - all of them are purely evil, equally guilty of that crime?
We’re on the same general side on this debate. I think people who oppose abortion are practically wrong. Some probably have very backwards and evil motives. Some honestly think they’re doing the work of good and think you’re as evil as you think they are.

You are clearly not rational in your beliefs. I just thought it was ironic that you accused me of being the reason for the rise in power of the ignorant and intolerant, since you’re the opposite side of the same coin with them.

170

… enemy prisoners been shot by the military. Not the enemy one.

171

Your argument is void:

172

Replace Hitler with any other dude who has killed a whole lot of people.

Godwin’s law, by the way, is kind of funny but not valid when used seriously like it’s a legitimate fallacy.

173

How is it used seriously here? It’s a classic: present an extreme case to distort the position of your opponent. Exactly as it has been done here.

174

If you seriously believe “You said Hitler! Your argument is invalid!” then that’s just silly.

My argument didn’t require Hitler - I went to the extreme because it was meant to be said in a mocking, hyperbolic tone - but you could replace Hitler with anyone who has caused a lot of death and suffering and still reach the same point.

My point was to mock the idea that if you ever, under any circumstances, advocated murder, and also didn’t believe in abortion rights, you were a hypocrite. With that, I presented the idea that most people would kill [some bad guy that killed a lot of people] if they had the chance - and by their own standards, if they were against murder, then that would make them hypocrites.

175

Yes I do. No discussion can continue if Hitler is invoked. The Shoah is such a terrible thing that nothing compares to it. It doesn’t make sense.

If you do not have a convincing argument without Hitler, you do not have an argument.

176

See above. The use of Hitler was intentionally hyperbolic. Replace Hitler with anyone from Jack the ripper to some random dude who killed someone in your family and it’s the same argument.

I wonder if I can get your head to explode Kirk style if I can somehow tie Hitler to an obviously true argument. Hitler believed that 2+2=4!

177

A says B
A is a monster
B must be false

That’s a classic, and does not follow any logic. Not valid in a discussion.

I am a vegetarian btw. Hitler also was vegetarian. Am I Hitler?
You DO understand SOME logic, do you?

178

Get out the hot dogs and burgers, folks. I think I’m about to flame away.

Here’s what’s got me furious about the whole right-to-life movement. I understand that people think abortion is murder and want it to stop. Fair enough. Making it illegal and killing people in church isn’t what’s going to do it. Abortion rates tend to be about the same whether it’s legal or illegal. Also, 57% of women who have abortions used birth control during the month they became pregnant, which is why I don’t buy the argument that women use abortion as birth control. A woman is also a lot more likely to have an abortion if her income’s below the poverty level in America.

If you want to reduce the number of abortions in America, rather than making it illegal and yammering about people killing babies, here’s what you should do in my arrogant opinion:
[ul]
[li]Make affordable prenatal care available to all women, regardless of income. If that means it’s free, so be it. [/li][li]Make birth control widely accessible and cheap. Make Plan B truly over the counter so that if the condom breaks a back up method is available.[/li][li]Provide paid maternity leave so a woman doesn’t have to choose between paying the mortgage and having a baby.[/li][li]Straighten out the health care system so that medical costs aren’t one of the leading causes of bankruptcy. I wonder how many people who oppose late term abortion would be willing to pay the medical bills of a family who gave birth to a child who was too badly damaged to live more than a few weeks and that inside an ICU.[/li][/ul]

That won’t end all abortions, but it’s a good start. If we want to end abortion, we’ve got to address the underlying causes.

Here ends the morning rant.

179

A silly statement, since that group isn’t “diverse” at all; they all have the same goal, to block abortion. They are all evil, or support evil the same way that everyone who supports slavery or torture is. And for the same reason; they all support a position that is oppressive or cruel, or both.

A false comparison, since Muslims are not all of the same opinion. As opposed to the anti-abortionists, who are defined by being all of the same opinion. “Is everyone who supports torture evil ?” would be a much more analogous question, to which I would answer “Yes”.

That’s hardly the only evil they commit, or want to commit, or support the commission of.

I’m sure the Inquisition felt the same. They were still evil.

If refusing to respect the beliefs of people who want to reduce women to the status of brood mares or worse makes me “irrational”, so be it.

180

I agree. Btw., in many European countries this is reality.

Unfortunately the anti-abortion people often tend to be anti-government as well, so they will have issues with free maternity leave etc.