Does Bush Want Americans To Spy On Each Other?

Great Debates
1

Source: US planning to recruit one in 24 Americans as citizen spies

Disclaimer - This story is appearing in the Sydney Morning Herald, located in a country where the Australian government, IMHO, does so well at turning citizens against themselves. On top of that, the byline is attributed to a writer seeking political asylum [in Sweden], saying he was the victim of life-threatening assaults in retaliation for his accountability efforts.

I add the disclaimer for those unfamiliar with the subtle socialist and possibly anti-American stance of the article.

Then again, Operation TIPS may be found at http://www.citizencorps.gov/tips.html so the basis for the story has some truth to it.

So if you are an American with no overseas experience, what is your take on the story as written with your own American perspective? Do you have any opinions as to why the writer is attempting to provoke readers this way?

If you’re an American who has travelled and/or lived for a while overseas (defining this for the sake of this post as a year or more overseas), what is your take on the story as written with your own international perspective? Do you have any opinions as to why the writer is attempting to provoke readers this way?

And if you are a non-American, what is your take on the story as written with your own perspective? Do you have any opinions as to why the writer is attempting to provoke readers this way?

Given the climate of America, in particular, and the world, in general, do you really believe Bush/Ashcroft are capable of such actions?

The debate I am attempting to spark actually comes from two fronts:

  1. The story itself and the obvious (at least to me) deliberate political slant on the story to provoke a particular (anti-American) response.

  2. That each of us have our opinions colored based upon where we are from, and possibly modified (undefined) based upon any potential international travel experience.

Having lived overseas, and Oz in particular, I find the slant of the story is a careful word play with the facts, but having a decidedly anti-American and hypocritical tone to it. After all, America is seen as the beacon of freedom in the world, yet the story takes a hard slam, equating the proposal with the former East Germany through the infamous Stasi secret police.

By the same token, the Australian government for years has fought the age-old custom of not “dobbing in” a fellow Aussie to create a network of “spies” within the government bureaucratic ranks, along with laws effectively requiring the average citizen to give up any semblance of privancy when they seek some sort of government assistance.

So who is calling the kettle black here? :slight_smile:

2

No.

Just you Duckster.

Just you…

3

He vas zaying ze Pledge, mit de unter Gott, und his mouth vas moving, but he vasn’t talking…

I haven’t seen anything about this other than the article in the OP, however.

jayjay

4

I didn’t see any anti-American content in the article. There was an anti-Bush administration tone (and some anti-Reagan stuff in the last few paras), but nothing against the country itself or its citizens.

5

Ja, und he gets zome zuzpicious packages von und book store, not to mention ze dildos

6

The 1 in 24 is what makes this really unbelieveable. Would these people actually be on gov’t payroll? Talk about white-collar welfare…

7

Hey, where do I sign up? I see suspicious people…walking around like regular citizens. They don’t see each other. They only see what they want to see. They’re everywhere.

8

I’m reminded of the Afghan warlords saying their rivals are Taliban so they will be bombed.
I never liked that guy down the road. Brings his dog to crap on my lawn.
Looks pretty damn suspicious to me. Bet he’s got a Commie, er, Taliban flag hanging up in his garage.

9

Today a Republican “strategist” was interviewed on Fox News and he kept using the rhetorical device “If Pres. Bush was a dictator…” As in, “If Pres. Bush was a dictator, we would have had faster and deepeer tax cuts.” “If President Bush was a dictator, we would have education reform,” etc. He used this preface to about five things.

I guess he was attacking the Senate, but what with the Patriot Act and everything else…

10

Dangit, i missed this thread when i made mine!! i swear i checked 2 full pages! Been working too hard at the comp and beginning to miss things!

11

Perhaps, Beagle, that “strategist” was subconsciously trying to suppress his memory of one of W’s favorite knee-slappers:

http://www.baltech.org/lederman/gw-dictator-12-19-00.html
http://www.literalpolitics.com/NewsDay/July/newsdayjuly.htm

A “Stasi program” is definitely right up Ashcroft’s alley, no question. I hope the GOP pushes for it really hard - it’s a foot bullet.

12

Heh, it’s stuff like this that’s got me on a 1984 kick lately, yet everyone tells me I am just scaremongering. Heh, well, I dunno but I read all about this in 1984.

Ah well.

Erek

13

This is real. And it’s scary.

Petition
Online Community

Mods, I hope I’m not stepping over any bounds by posting these links. If I am, please delete them.

14

Oh, good, now the government knows who to check up on. :wink:

Erek

15

The scariest part of this to me is that they are recruiting mail carriers.

“Suspicious activity”? What is that? Evidence of a crime is one thing, but what’s suspicious? Recieving mail from Saudi Arabia? Will they start looking at the books ordered? “Suspicious” left wing/right wing publications?

I’m normally not that paranoid about my government, but this kind of stuff makes me wonder whether I should be. The thought that a person who visits my house 5 days a week could be watching me for their own simple minded suspicions is friggin’ creepy.

16

Damn, the terrorists have won, big time.

17

In order to keep the terrorists from being able to take our freedom we must give it over to the government for safekeeping for when there are no more terrorists.

Erek

18

You know, I can’t tell if that last post is supposed to be a joke or not.

19

<tries in vain to remove his tongue from his cheek>

20

This disgusts me… out and out disgusts me. If we need further proof that the Bush Administration has admitted defeat to terrorism and is willing to dump civil liberties out the window, I don’t know what it is.

The only good news (such as it is) is that the Postal Service claims that it will not be joining the TIPS effort.

Postal Service won’t join TIPS program