What i’m asking is, is God one that truly gives a fuck what we do & how we do it, or does he watch us screw ourselves out of “heaven.” Is the Devil one who tempts us on a daily basis, or does he simply take advantage of our human nature?
Shinrai X
Don’t parents want the best for their children? I would say YES! Wouldn’t you, assuming that you do or may want children, want to know what your children are doing in school, and if their doing well? I know I do not want to watch my daughter screw her life up, I would give her as much help as I could, and hope she does the best with what I have shown or given her!
OF COURSE GOD CARES! He wants the best for us; it’s up to us to make the best of what he has given us!
As for the devil, he temps us on a daily basis and we are sinful because we are born into sin. So I would say being sinful is our nature. After all, we are born into his world of sin.
God does make himself known on a daily basis! Take a moment tolook at the sky, stars, trees, mountains, oceans, wildlife, and all the times you felt him somehow, someway!
You’ll feel it.
Hmmm, nope, I wouldn’t say God does a lot of showing himself in our lives. It’s easy for those of us sitting here in our comfy chairs with our reasonably comfortable lives to sit back and say “Of course he does! We have to the best with what he gives us! Just look around you and see how wonderful he is!” Of course, such an argument would hold absolutely no water to a starving African sitting on an empty rice bowl in the desert, watching his children starve right along with him.
Of course, I don’t believe in any gods, so there you go.
What a wise parent wants from his children is for them to grow up and stop running to him whenever they have a problem.
God’s kind of the strong, silent type. But the Goddess–oh yeah, she makes herself known.
The Divine, regardless of the interpretation, is as evident in the world as you recognize. If you allow yourself to be aware, then it’s hard to understand how someone could even asked if God cares.
Not in mine.
But, then, I have long preferred to take personal responsibility for my life.
I agree with what Alessan said, and to expand on it, parents (at least mine) want what’s best for me, yes. But they also want me to live my own life, they give me advice if I ask for it, but it’s my life to live, and make decisions about. It seems to me that when parents are too involved, interferring, controlling, or meddling the kid is more likely to be angry with them for not letting them experience things for themselves.
I also think that the kind of reasoning that God makes His presence known is what led people in the middle ages to think that everyone in town was dying of the Plague because they were all terrible sinners, and not because they were filthy and living in squalor. We have free will!!!
It seems like an easy out to me. If someone does something bad then they say, “it’s not my fault the Devil tempted me.” It can lead to people not taking responsibility for their actions.
Shinrai X said:
C) None of the Above.
Dunno.
My short answer is, “Yes.”
My long answer follows:
My concept of “God” is much less anthropomorphized than most people’s. God is IMO a force akin to magnetism or gravity or evolution rather than a guy with a white beard sitting on a throne in the clouds, controlling us like a puppeteer. When you look back over geologic time and imagine the mountains forming, the tree line moving in response to environmental changes, animals gaining the ability to fly, humans first realizing that if you grow the food, you’ll know where your next meal is coming from - that’s God. God has an intelligence, or a plan, but ultimately the details of this are unknown to humans. Anyone who tells you any different is either deranged or after something that you have.
God is not particularly malicious or benevolent - God is God.
God can be seen in our daily lives, but you have to know what you’re looking for. An eagle swooping down on a lake and grabbing a fish, a rabbit outrunning a coyote, a child’s face when they first learn something - that’s God. A basketball team winning a game, a singer winning an award, a pious Christian living a comfortable middle-class life - that’s not God, that’s human.
but what ya’ll are trying to say isn’t really what i was asking…yes you can “see” God in the world around you, and in nature…but is God actively trying to “win” our souls to him, and is the Devil trying to do the same? Basically, do things really work like the angel on one shoulder, & the devil on the other…or is God watching and laughing at us all?
Shinria X: See Spiritus Mundi’s earlier reply concerning personal responsibility. Assuming, for the purpose of this post, the existence of a god, it’d literally piss this puppy off if I thought that there was some sort of game being played by cosmic high rollers with me as the prize. If I were to find such a thing out, why, I’d do everything in my power to queer the game and stiff the players.
Freewill. Choice. Responsibility. Honesty. Integrity. If god exists I am certain that he has better things to do with his time than worry about what we’re doing down here on the planet Earth. Once he pulls our rip cords and sends us on our way I would imagine that he lets us go completely and then laughs his ample godly ass off watching as we fumble around trying to make sense of it all instead of living life and celebrating the beauty all around us.
As for me, I agree with Spiritus Mundi. It’s all up to us. Take responsibility and give it all you’ve got. Enjoy the people in your life and give them the respect they deserve. Do your best, be your best, and always strive to improve yourself from within. We’re here to learn. Get started and good luck!
For that question, my short answer would have to be changed to, “No.”
To my way of thinking, “God” and “The Devil” are essentially the same thing. It’s two different human-imposed ways of looking at the same fundamentally non-understandable phenomenon. The closest approximation I have run across in popular culture is the concept of “The Force” from the Star Wars movies. I hate to use that as an example, but it’s fairly close to what I believe. They talk about Darth Vader using the dark side of the Force, and Luke Skywalker using the light side of the Force, but it’s the same Force. It’s not two separate entities.
I apologize for using such a dreadful example, but it’s the only one that pops into my head at the moment.
IMO, “God” cares about humans, but generally doesn’t actively interfere. God is concerned with the bigger picture, which frankly oftentimes involves humans dying in large numbers.
Shinrai X said:
Only if you first believe in “God,” of course. So it’s kind of self-fulfilling.
This question is only hypothetically valid by also assuming there is a divine realm. (Note: Even by assuming there is a divine realm, we cannot merely assume only one god, especially one that fully employs Satan to achieve his goals). Nevertheless, for argument’s sake, assuming one god and Satan, if this single hypothetical god wishes to test us in such a manner, and the test involves being wise to the test, it would obviously be a test in reverse since the “answer” to the test is commonly assumed to be obvious. Therefore, one god using a common test on humans would only be self-interested in finding those who would not be so gullible as to blindly believe in one god. Also, Satan would necessarily disguise himself as the one god to thwart the ease of the test, assuming common knowledge. And, to make matters really simple, the easiest explanation would be that Satan wouldn’t even exist, it would be just a test ploy by one god.
In other words, life as a religious test only makes sense if there is no evil (which is logical) and if the test to see who is honest enough to admit there is no rational reason to believe in one god. Interestingly, this also means that it doesn’t matter if their is or is not a single god. The point is especially moot since there is no natural phenomena that lends cause to the argument for needing to deciding on the nature of one god.
From my point of view, ‘God’ is no more than an idea, or concept, in the minds of people who (a) unfortunately got indoctrinated as a kid or (b) feel the need for such an idea or © just want a really BIG imaginary friend. Hence from my standpoint the answer is: there’s no God to care or not care. Looking for signs of God making himself known is, from my perspective, on a par with waiting for the Tooth Fairy to cook your dinner.
As a corollary to the OP, which particular God do you mean? The one who revealed his hind parts in the Old Testament? Or Vishnu? Odin? Allah? Whichever one you pick, x million people would agree with your nomenclature, but alas even more would disagree. Good luck finding out which particular version is absolutely, totally right. Oops, sorry, I forgot… they ALL are!
Not trying to be too sarcastic here, but I don’t follow. It seems that humans also realizing that if you split the atom, you’ll know how to vaporize whole masses of other humans would qualify as god too - since you said:
I think that’s one scary depiction of God (but then again, Christians think he flooded the world, so that’s kinda creepy too!)
Again, no offense, but I think the word “nature” suffices quite beautifully for both of those.
Where does the line between human/God get drawn? How about an ancient hunter smashing a seal’s head in with a stick? Seems to be in the same vein as the eagle…
Not trying to hijack or anything, but I am one confused ol’ atheist here. Ogre is here shaking his head in confusion too.
[Princess Bride mode]Ah, you’ve committed one of the classic blunders, the most well known of which is “never get involved in a land war in Asia” but only slightly less well known is “never go up against a Cecilian when death is on the line!” Bwahahaha! <collapses>[/PB mode]
super_head: Sorry for the ambiguities in my earlier posts. I’ve never actually put any of my beliefs into writing before - this is usually done verbally, over several pints of beer and a pack of smokes. Also, sorry for the delay - real life keeps rearing its ugly head.
To my way of thinking, what happened was this: early humans looked at the world around them and perceived a pattern or an intelligence or an order in the natural world. Things seemed to be happening for a reason, but they just couldn’t quite put their finger on it. It’s almost as if it was just outside of their field of vision (or more precisely, their field of understanding.) So, they attempted to understand this perception, and in attempting to understand and explain it, they ended up generating a series of metaphors and similes for it (“It’s like a Mother,” “It’s like a Father,” It’s like a plumed serpent," “It’s like a man who is simultaneously creating and destroying everything,” “It’s like a great warrior on the field of battle,” etc.) Eventually, these metaphors and similes ended up taking on a life of their own in the minds of people (“It is The Father,” “It is Mother Earth,” and so on.)
After enough generations began thinking of the metaphors as the phenomenon (or phenomena), the people “forgot” that what they were dealing with were metaphors, and not the actual thing itself. You’re quite right - “nature” works well to describe some aspects of this. As does “fate,” “synchronicity,” “evolution,” and any number of other terms. The reason I used the word “God” is because that was the term used in the OP. It’s also a term with which most people in our society are familiar. Unfortunately, of course, it’s a very loaded term, and using it almost always causes problems. The Atheists end up thinking I’m some misguided Christian, and the Christians end up thinking I’m a heretic. Fortunately, neither of these viewpoints particularly bothers me.
Semantics aside, I’m not really sure where the line gets drawn between human and “God.” The realization that led us to split the atom, or to bash in an animal’s head with a rock instead of using our hands and teeth, was “God” in that the spark of intelligence behind it was a product of what I perceive of as “God.” Bear in mind that as I stated earlier, my perception of what people call “God” isn’t the anthropomorphized version taught by churches as the Ultimate Reality. It’s a natural force more akin to gravity, magnetism, evolution, the passage of time, etc. To ask whether “God” cares about us is like asking whether gravity is good or evil. It just doesn’t fit into the way I see things.
I don’t know for a fact that this pattern or intelligence (as described above) really exists, or if it is just a figment of human’s imaginations and our alleged need to see order where this is none. I also realize and acknowledge that I may very well be wrong on this. None of this can be proven scientifically, that’s for sure.