No you don’t know the circumstances of physical abuse, but cheating and physical abuse aren’t the same things at all.
And yes, I think a lot of cheaters are a certain type, but I think a lot of people who have been cheated on also have similar characteristics.
I have similar lines of thinking - one of the things that I was most disappointed with in this particular situation the affair went on for over 6 months - it wasn’t a one-time, drunken indiscretion sort of thing, it was very much active deception over a pretty long period of time.
Yes that likely applies to this case, though the other cheater who divorced their spouse hasn’t been cut out of the group either (friends just hang out with each half of the former-couple separately).
Something to always keep in mind. One of the cheaters was very open in talking about it, sharing far more details (from their perspective) than I would have expected. It’s hard to know if all of what they said is the truth, but their story definitely did not make them seem any more sympathetic (if anything, it really highlighted how selfish at least that one cheater was, they seemed to barely acknowledge their former-spouse’s feelings at all).
Reading some of the experiences in this thread show just how horrible cheating is for many people, but I must admit my friends who were the victims of infidelity in this case have both been amazingly resilient. Both of them seemed amazing able to accept the situation (and forgive in the one couple).
Years ago, Mrs P and I were in a pretty tight circle of friends. There was one couple that was very involved in it.
Then he started cheating on her with a co-worker. It went on for some time until it came out at a big party what they were doing.
The reaction from most of the group was pretty similar: dropped him, dropped the other person, and provided emotional support to the wife.
Eventually the husband and the co-worker moved to a different province. They stayed together for a few years until (we heard) that she started seeing another guy and moved out.
If you’re prepared to lie to the person you’ve pledged yourself to, and betray them in the most intimate way possible, what else are you prepared to lie and cheat about?
Reconciliation is a big part of the online infidelity support community, and a lot of the long termers are betrayed people in reconciliation.
I got left, this was never a choice I was faced with or got to make. So that’s a road I never walked. Many reconciliations ultimately fail, it’s estimated that 90% do. It’s an unequal situation, no matter how much the cheater professes that they will spend the rest of their lives making it up to the betrayed partner. Eventually, in many cases, the cheater winds up almost giddy for their reprieve while the betrayed partner may be in denial or whistling past the graveyard.
From a practical standpoint, if you have minor children, I can understand attempting reconciliation. Finances and the difficulties of single parenting and all of that. There are also those that over time are openly waiting to spring a divorce on the cheater down the line, when the kids are out of the house. This is decried by some in reconciliation as being dishonest. I have never seen anyone convinced to go back on this sort of plan, so those complaints fall on deaf ears.
Even those genuinely supportive of reconciliation will balk at having further children with a cheater, or young people who come in determined to reconcile with a cheating boyfriend or girlfriend they haven’t even married yet.
I’m not comfortable with equating physical abuse and cheating as pretty much exactly the same, at least in terms of the perpetrator. For one thing, most people wouldn’t physically abuse their spouse, and those who do have demonstrable psychological problems, whether it’s some form of psychopathy, anger management issues, substance abuse, or unresolved issues as a result of their own poor upbringing.
Cheating? Not so much. Like it or not, the reality is - ordinary humans cheat. I have known MANY cheaters, some of whom were assholes and all of whom were wrong to do what they did, but none of whom were seriously depraved the way someone who would actually physically attack a loved one is depraved.
If my spouse had cheated on me (I don’t think he ever did, but if so I never found out), of course I would have been deeply hurt. But I would have tried to look at what was wrong in the marriage and made a decision as to whether it was something I wanted to commit to fixing or not, and would have tried to see if my spouse also wanted to commit to fixing the problems.
On the other hand, if a partner EVER so much as laid a hand on me, I would instantly leave.
This is not to disrespect abused partners who do stay in a relationship - I understand that people can be trapped due to having children, no economic stability outside of the partnership, etc. I would not harshly judge a person who stayed in an abusive relationship due to feeling trapped.
All I’m saying is, if cheated on, I’d want to salvage things. If hit - no fucking way.
I leave what people do in their bedroom(s) up to them, but cheating extends outside of just the (presumably) consenting adults doing the fucking. I generally move in circles where people are almost as likely to be polyamorous or in open relationships as not, so cheating is a little less of an issue. But lots of people are also monogamous, and polyamory isn’t the same as open, so cheating still happens . I treat each case individually, but usually just avoid the cheaters.
Although I don’t agree that someone willing to cheat is necessarily also going to steal your wallet when your back is turned. People often compartmentalize stuff like sex from other morality.
It would have when I was a teenager, but over the years since then I’ve learned that pretty much everyone has cheated or been cheated on and the number with both experiences is close to if not a majority. I don’t believe that most people are bad people or untrustworthy. I know we aren’t talking about “most people” but valued friends, but most of us are friends with other regular human beings and not fantasy beings.
Not at all the same thing. Bruises and bones can heal in a matter of weeks or months. I still have PTSD from my 1st wife’s infidelities and I left her 14 years ago.
Agreeing with the idea that you can’t judge the worthiness of a marriage from the outside, but really the question is about trustworthiness in a friend. As with marriage, if trust is not absolute and 100% I can’t be part of the friendship, either.
Knowing that someone has been unfaithful to a committed partner concerns me. There are other ways to measure the reliability and trustworthiness of a person if you know them well enough. What I know about someone from personal interaction counts more for me than what others think about them. In that respect there are plenty of people I have limited respect for based on one action or another. There are people I know, their are friends, there are good friends, and family (at least the ones I count). I never count on those relationships anymore. If I have be judgemental about a person I want to base it on actual experience.
This is how I feel. Indeed, I object to the characterization of this phenomenon with a negative term like “cheating.” In my view it’s immoral even to expect that you will have a say in your spouse’s—or any other human being’s—right to do what they please with their own genitals and their own emotions.
Marriage or partnership is an arrangement for maintaining a household. It should not extent to putting a cage around the participants’ bodies and hearts. One should expect that a person will fall in love with many different people and have a range of relationships over a lifetime—even during the course of a household partnership.
To the extent that this causes trauma, my view is that the blame is to be put on our cultural myth that creates an expectation of sexual and romantic exclusivity, not to mention a lifetime of such exclusivity. Don’t create this expectation in the first place.
That’s fine - but doesn’t the other person have a right to do what they please with their genitals and emotions ? Even if that means they are not willing to be in a non-exclusive relationship.
Most people only call it “cheating” when the relationship is supposed to be exclusive and it’s being done without the other person’s knowledge - and the “without the other person’s knowledge” is the important part as far as a lot of people are concerned. And the reason for that lack of knowledge is, in my experience , because one person doesn’t want to let the other person make an informed decision about what to do with their emotions and genitals. Chris sleeps with Pat behind Alex’s back because Chris doesn’t want to risk Alex ending the relationship.
Except, part of the agreement, almost universally, has to do with emotional and sexual exclusivity. If that’s not your bag, no judgment, but don’t lie to someone from the outset by saying you’re on board. There are plenty of people looking for a roommate they can marry. It’s not the breach of exclusivity that is the problem, it’s playing someone for a fool by pretending you’re on the same page as them when you never really were.
Only “universal” in our particular place and time. Not universal in terms of the breadth of the human experience. By creating this cultural myth, we are setting everyone up for failure. As noted above, “infidelity” is among the most common of human experiences, from one side or another, often both. Many of our best stories are about infidelity. We should treat it as mundane as it actually is, no more traumatic than a broken pencil tip or a clogged sink.
To be fair, extra-marital sex does open the door to consequences that are far from mundane, pregnancy and STDs being the obvious ones. Being responsible enough to take appropriate precautions might be a better solution, depending on the relationship, than expecting rigid fidelity.
Don’t people have a right to expect others tightly entwined in a relationship will be honest with them? It is one thing when a partner declares a relationship to be over and then moves on with their life without agreement from their partner. It something quite different for a partner to be unfaithful behind the other partner’s back after having promised not do such things.
I’m sure that people can be overwhelmed in the moment and make a mistake. Partners have to decide how to proceed when that happens. That is a different situation also. An isolated mistake can end a relationship but it shouldn’t ruin a partner’s life. That’s something people should understand before committing to each other.
Saying “I will only be in an exclusive relationship” is a declaration of a wish to have ownership over another person’s genitals and emotions, even if it is only a theoretical person. As I said, to me, this is an immoral desire, along the same lines as wanting to be a slave owner.
Regrettably, most of us walking the earth today will never experience much else of the breadth of human experience. And what cultural myth are you talking about, surely not the one that sparks the rising action in countless tales across the centuries? Fidelity is a goal, some are better at than others for any number of reasons. The only failure anyone is set up for is being unable to find the self-respect of walking away from someone who is less adept at not being deceitful.
I have known several friends - including some doctors, nurses, lawyers and police officers - who cheated. I’m somewhat sympathetic since I am human. But I also tend to trust them less than I would, say, a tattletale or rumourmonger.
That makes no sense. Slavery is not a voluntary matter. You don’t think people can choose what type of behavior they’ll accept in their partners? If the terms of a relationship aren’t suitable to you then don’t get involved.
No, no one’s being enslaved in mutually consensual monogamy.
Cheating is about so much more than rubbing two strange pair of genitals together. It’s about getting more than you deserve, putting something over on the betrayed partner(s), and so on. A lot of that can be more damaging than any actual sex.
My ex left me for someone she knew before we ever met. Who was also single and available when we married. I was told, by her, as she was separating from me, that for her marriage was a choice between him and me and she chose me. Well, I was the one who was willing to come through, go through a wedding and have kids with her. He was a commitmentphobe who’d broken up with a long time girlfriend because that woman wanted a family.
Now she has both of us, I take the kids (she doesn’t want them every day) and she takes part of my paycheck. His as well. He doesn’t have his own kids and is dependent upon his stepkids for a family. She’s got all of the power in that relationship. It’s apparent at this point that this was her plan all along, to have power over other people. She doesn’t want an equal relationship. She has what she wants.
She could have picked me, or him. But either choice would have required her to sacrifice more than what she actually did.