With regards to America’s policy towards gays in the military - I know that, technically, if someone publicly says/acts as if/etc they’re homosexual, it’s technically grounds to be discharged. What happens if:
A) someone asks someone else? If reported, is the asker subject to the same degree of punishment as someone who “told” would be?
B) someone asks, and the ‘askee’ tells? Are both parties subject to punishment?
bump
Surely someone here must have an idea?
I Am Not A JAG, but I think the enforcement would not be as strict on “don’t ask” as it would be on the poor guy who gets kicked out on some neolithic regulation.
Based entirely on viewing the movie G.I. Jane, the askee is not required to answer if asked. Asking might be grounds for a reprimand, but not discharge. IANAL, YMMV, etc.
To answer your question, the penalty for asking, if there is any penalty at all, is up to the discretion of the asker’s commanding officer. It would almost never amount to getting kicked out, which is the punishment if the askee answers with a “yes.” Generally the asker would only get in trouble if the askee went to the inspector general or the equal opportunity office and complained. I’ve never seen it happen, but I would suspect a written reprimand is probably all that would happen, unless they could prove that there was some kind of ongoing persecution.
To expound a bit, the military can ask the question if they have reasonable cause to believe that the answer is yes. Unfortunately for the gays, the threshold of what’s a reasonable cause is very low. If someone catches a person holding hands with someone of the same gender, the military is then allowed to launch an official investigation. Asking the member if they’re gay is a legal part of that investigation, and that puts the member in the position of either lying (and possible facing punishment down the road if caught), or getting the boot. In recent years, gays are typically just asked to leave, and if they accept, they are pushed out ahead of schedule with an honorable discharge. Apparently the government doesn’t want to force the issue back into the public eye by giving someone a dishonorable discharge at this point.
Of course, I’m also not a JAG, just a grunt who’s been forced to read the pamphlet on “what does don’t ask/don’t tell really mean?” one too many times.
That’s also my understanding as to how the “askers” are treated by DoD.
A bad policy, idiotically enforced, IMHO. See this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14052513/
More information from the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network.
I’ve got no FMs or ARs to bust out on this one, so take it for what it’s worth. This is my understanding of the rule:
There is NO penalty for being gay. There is no penalty for asking someone if they are gay.
The penalty of discharge is for a person making any statement or doing any act (including marriage) that identifies him as homosexual.
A person cannot be asked. It’s similar to Miranda Rights. If you ask the killer “Did you kill her” without reading him his rights, and he goes on for three hours about exactly how he killed her… none of the statement can be used in court. The officer does not get arrested for failing to read the suspect his rights. But that evidence against him cannot be used.
Similarly, if a person’s “statement” comes because his NCO or Officer asked him, then that soldier has not violated the “statements, acts, marriages” rule. A statement can’t be coerced. Therefore, the soldier cannot be punished in any way. The gay soldier would be allowed to continue serving provided he continues to make no statements, do any acts, or marry any dudes. Remember, the policy isn’t “No Gays”. It’s basically “no gay statements, no gay actions, and no gay marriages”. So if you are gay and do none of those (or get caught doing those) then you’re in the clear. And no person can force you to out yourself.
ETA: I am definitely not the expert on this one. I’ve never even read the pamphlet that steronz is talking about. I dont have any first hand experience with this issue at all.
And “gay actions” can include things like being caught buying a copy of Freshmen at Borders (I knew I guy who got caught doing that after boot camp).
The correct, proper, “can’t catch me” answer would be a reply along the lines of “I apologize, sir, but asking me that question is a violation of the UCMJ. Oh, and I want a JAG.”
Which is, of course, why American jails of all types are mostly empty.
As it happens I just read an op ed piece by a guy who was discharged (he didn’t say what kind of discharge) after emails were found between him and his SO (also discharged) that suggested they were gay and he refused to deny it (he was encouraged to, IIRC). The back story is that he was an Arabic translator who was raring to go to Iraq and the army is desparate for Arabic translators.
One thing I am curious about is this: if you get an honorable discharge, doesn’t this give an easy out for anyone who wants out. I have assumed, not that the get a dishonorable discharge, but more likely a general discharge. After WWII almost any discharge but honorable doomed job applicants, but I don’t suppose anyone cares much today. Especially if the reason is gayness.
If you get a DD (dishonorable discharge) you are fairly fuckered for life. Anything, anywhere that the government touches you are closed off from. That includes getting a loan from a government-subsidized bank or even getting a job at McDonald’s, because they too are on the government dole. The feds have their fingers in a lot of pies.
IANAL IANAJAG etcetc this is secondhand information from my association in the US Navy.
What do you mean by this 
McDonald’s is a government-subsidized company.
I’m also curious about this. Explain?
McDonald’s receives some government money (as in fact most large corporations do for some thing or another) primarily for overseas advertising. However just because a corporation at some level receives some form of government subsidy does not mean that having a DD on your record precludes you from working for them, does not mean that the employer has the policy of “no hires for persons dishonorably discharged” nor does it mean that as a condition of accepting the subsidy money that the company has to have such a policy (said corporation certainly may have such a policy if they so choose although it may be questionable legally in some cases, and even sans such a policy a DD will probably at least warrant some explanation from the applicant and can definitely be a negative mark on your application not only with McDonald’s but with many employers.)
Keep in mind McDonald’s is a franchise and most of the individual McDonald’s restaurants have private owners and are not owned by McDonald’s Corporation.
This article references something called the Market Promotion Program…
It’s not an easy out exactly, but yeah. If the military busts you for being gay, then can usually hustle you out in a month or so, assuming you confessed.
OTOH, if you out yourself on purpose, they can drag their heels and you could sit around not doing much of anything for six months or longer.
Now that we’re bogged down in Iraq, I’d be curious how long it takes the self-outers to get out.
Back when DADT first started, gays would frequently get an Other Than Honorable discharge, which would more or less automatically upgrade to an Honorable after six months or a year or so.
You probably would not get a dishonorable discharge just for being outed, to get a DD you have to actually be convicted in a courts-martial (or plead out) and is typically reserved for serious criminal acts under the UCMJ.
If you’re gay and play ball you’ll probably get an honorable discharge. But it’s not unheard of to get a general discharge or an undesirable discharge. A bad conduct discharge would probably not be common and a dishonorable discharge for being outed would be almost unheard of. A BCD likewise is handed out as part of a courts-martial related situation (like in the civilian criminal justice system plea bargaining is common) and for a host of reasons almost no one wants to go to trial over a violation of DADT, it makes the military look bad, it’s a pain in the ass for the soldier in question, it’s more expensive and time consuming than the other options, so bad conduct discharges are probably very rare for soldiers who are outed. Again, a dishonorable discharge would be almost unheard of unless there was some other major factor (like the soldier had committed a serious crime to cover up his homosexuality, like murder or etc.)