Who was I being a dick to? Are you really saying I have to have sympathy for the Manson family?
Wrong. She chose to actively kill people. I’m choosing nothing of the sort. I am merely gratified by nature killing psychopaths.
By the way, aren’t you for the death penalty?
No no no no. NO.
You have to respond to what I actually said. You can’t pretend I said something else and then respond to that.
What I said you both have in common is the willingness to decide who “deserves it.” You have that in common.
What you don’t have in common (I think) is that she had the courage of her convictions and you don’t. Which, I guess, is a good thing for society, but reflects poorly on your character.
Orbifold:
IMO, that was a seriously excellent post.
Your statement is meaningless. I have the willingness to “decide who deserves” WHAT? I’m not deciding a fucking thing. I’m just gratified by random chance. There’s nothing wrong with judging people. Everyone on earth, including you, judges people. Judging people and doing something about are two different things. You have no coherent point, but your compassion and love for the Manson family is very moving.
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Wait! All I care about is “do I get points for the abuse I have received in this thread.” 
For what it’s worth, I would never start a thread about dancing on someone’s grave or saying that they deserve the ill that has befallen them. I would hardly ever utter an “amen” to any thread that did so. I think I did add an addenda to the Jesse Helms thread, saying something along the lines of hoping he gets a full dose of Karma in whatever place he resides.
My “false dilemma” detector is going off. You certainly don’t have to feel sorry for Susan Atkins, but why would you feel good that she is dying of cancer? Do you know her personally? Did you know Sharon Tate or the LoBiancas (sp)? If not, then why do you care one way or another what happens to Susan Atkins?
But, then we move from convicted murders into the realm of political figures. Then we move from political figures into the realm of spokespeople for political figures. It’s pretty jerkish to hope that Tony Snow suffered.
It is also a terrible start. Why don’t we honestly disagree about stuff but retain our humanity?
Or should we make a list of the oldest GOP and DEM senators and have competing grave-pissing contests? When Ted Stevens dies, the Dems can have a block party, and then when Robert Byrd dies the GOP can hold a bigger bash. All political deaths will be celebrated with fireworks and vitrol. I don’t like that at all, and it is pretty jerkish…
Um…how about because she’s a brutal, multiple murderer?
I know she’s a brutal, multiple murder and a sociopath. What else is there to know?
How could this question possibly be relevant? You’re saying they might have deserved it? What could I conceivably know about the Manson victims which would make this question relevant?
What kind of retarded fucking questions are these? Did you know anybody who died in 9/11? If not, then why do youi care what happens to Osama bin Laden? Why do you have to know the victims to dislike murderers? Your questions are asinine.
I don’t care. Go ahead.
Where does Phred fit into all of this? Am I alone in hoping that he suffers painfully and dies? He does have a use in the world; he lets people see almost pure hatred. It’s not something we encounter every day, and there are benefits from witnessing or experiencing something like that.
But I’ll be cheering the day he leaves the world. Were it legal, I’d help him along myself.
How did you go from “gloating that [someone] has brain cancer” to “teaching them that serial killers are bad”?
Fortunately, the Dio girls are much too inherently good-natured to take Schadenfreude to this level. The older one might think it was cool to see Bush eaten by a dinosaur on live TV, though.
I wasn’t gloating that “someone” had brain cancer, I was gloating that a serial killer had brain cancer. What’s wrong with that? Seriously, why is it wrong to be glad that a serial killer has brain cancer?
It’s kind of funny that you should ask. Susan Atkins was a fairly normal child with average grades leading an average life. Then her mother got…
Cancer.
Ironic, huh?
On her last visit to see her mother, Susan got the church choir to sing under her window. After her mother’s death, her father was bankrupted by the medical bills. He took to drinking, and travelling a lot in search of work which left Susan with no roots. She was foisted off from relative to relative, though nobody really wanted her. Her grades deteriorated, and it is thought that she was abused.
Homeless, she wandered around a bit. She had a minor run in with the law, but seemed to be pulling it together, playing guitar, dreaming of being a singer. She was quite beautiful and had an amazing voice.
Despite all the disadvantages, she had a chance.
Sadly, it was her music that led her to meet Manson. Manson was a compelling and charismatic figure. This really can’t be overstated. He was very good at finding people with emotional needs and exploiting them. He did it over and over to many different people.
He was into music and perhaps his charisma and authority appealed to something Susan had lost when her family was destroyed due to her mother’s cancer. Manson worked on her, in pretty much the standard cult fashion, a combination of isolation, athority, abuse, cajoling etc., and made her his. She succumbed willingly. Manson picked them carefully. She’s responsible for her actions, but I see her as a victim as well.
I look at the pictures of this smiling beautiful young girl, and I think it could have turned out differently. She wasn’t born a monster. She was made one. Partially by circumstance, partially by Manson, and partially by her willingness to surrender her soul into the keeping of one who would not guard it well.
She spent most of her adult life in jail. The son that she had (likely with Manson) was taken from her and she hasn’t seen him in 39? years. Like her mother she contracted cancer.
Ironically for this thread its brain cancer. She lost a leg to cancer, iirc. She is likely to die very soon.
I think she should stay in jail until she dies.
I also feel very sorry and very sad for her. Ultimately she wasn’t strong enough to overcome what life through at her. I don’t dismiss her as a simple psychopath and sociopath. I don’t think she was either.
Her story is one I see as a cautionary tail. I’m grateful that I didn’t have to face what she did, because I’m not sure if I would have had the strength to acquit myself any better.
Manson taught Atkins about fanatical beliefs, and the ability to dismiss other people as if they didn’t matter. Once you start beleiving that other people don’t matter, and are deserving of bad fortune, you sell your soul. It starts with talk, I’m sure. In some cases it can go further. You can wind up as a Phelps, or a bomber of abortion clinics, or what have you. it’s a slippery slope.
I think the major difference between and her and you, or her and I for that matter is circumstance. That’s all.
That’s what else there is to know about Susan Atkins.
Here’s some more:
http://www.susanatkins.org/B11Photo.html
Again, I don’t think she should ever be let out of jail, but it bothers me. I don’t see a monster. I see a person that was made a monster and has been trying to come back from that.
I’m supposed to give a shit about any of that bleeding heart sob story why? She’s a multiple, brutal murderer. She carved the fetus out of woman who was nine months pregnant. I don’t give a flying rabbit fuck about her unhappy childhood.
Your sanctimonious insinuations towards me are off the mark and dishonest. I don’t “believe that other people don’t matter” (if I did, I’d be a Republican), nor do I think that “people,” as a generic class, “are deserving of bad fortune.” I think that some people are deserving of bad fortune, but there is a gigantic difference between wanting to see someone get smacked with karma, and actively trying to bring that karma about. Your lecture is better aimed at people who favor the death penalty. It’s still a ludicrous stretch to liken even death penalty proponents to the manson killers, but it’s margially closer to trying to draw that comparison to someone who’s glad that a Manson killer got cancer.
Why don’t you try playing your Atkins violin for the family members of her victims.
No. I promise. I really mean it. Your ability to categorize and dismiss human beings is really scary.
I see a sociopath. Sociopaths don’t come back. I do not believe that all people are capable of redemption. That’s a religious belief. The reality is that some people are just empathically blind, and those people can’t be cured. You can fel sorry for her if you want to. I won’t tell you you’re an asshole for it. Just don’t expcet me to share it. I didn’t give her cancer. I don’t advocate giving anybody cancer. I’m just honest enough to admit to being gratified when lightning strikes an evil person.
What do you mean by “dismiss?”
As they grow from adolescents to young adults, your kids will develop their own biases, dislikes, and hatreds. You need not force them to marinate in yours.
Go back and reread your own words. The query put to you about doing things in front of your daughters immediately followed your post using the word “gloat”. There’s a large difference between gloating and having sympathy.