It’s a matter of respect, the very concept of which is puzzling to These Kids Today. I read an English historical novel set in the days of the Crusade and the young son of a knight was chastized for referring to his lady mother as “she” - “who is ‘she’? The cat’s aunt?”
Man alive, I never ever heard of this. The things you learn…
I’ve never heard of this rule that I recall, and yet I’d never have referred to my mom as “she” in the way it was used in the examples in this thread. Maybe it’s just an innate Southern speech pattern not to use “she” until the proper noun was introduced that I never needed to get the phrase “the cat’s mother” thrown at me (also self-preservation to not get smacked for being disrespectful!) ::shrug:: It’s fascinating, anyway. I am a native (rural) Floridian, FWIW.
I am very Southern and I have never heard of this. However, we couldn’t answer parents, teachers, or parents of friends with “Yes/No” in response to a question until we were in our middle teens at all and usually not until much later. It had to be “Yes Mam” or “Yes Sir”. Some adults still use that convention. My relatives are a little taken aback that my Massachusetts born daughters don’t do this but it would be considered very strange up here.
Look, folks, we’re not talking about all-out refusal to address one’s mother as “mother” or “mom” or whoever (at least I’m not), I’m talking about in general conversation saying “she” as opposed to her Official Title, and people getting their panties bunched. I’ve had conversations that went something like
Pop: So what’d your mother say/do about x,y,z?
Me: Well she—
Mom: (Huffily from across the room when no one was even talking to her) She??
Me: (Thinking what the fuck?) Mom said? You said? I’m not really sure what I’m supposed to say here. Or why you’re crazy and hate pronouns.
I don’t get it at all either. That is simply a bizarre view of the English language (at least my version of it). Are you supposed to repeat “Mom” over and over again in a conversation according to some people.
I think I was supposed to say, “Well Mom said,” then I think I was allowed to use pronouns from then on. I have no idea, it’s stupid.
I am still trying to figure out what a household pet’s extended relatives have anything to do with this.
But it’s not even just english, Anaamika’s, was in Hindi, and another poster’s in Polish. It’s not a grammar thing, its a respect thing. She’s your mom (or grandmom, grand aunt etc.) and deserves to be named initially in the conversation, Mom’s not just any ‘she’, she’s your MOM.
Listen, (looks around to see if ma is around) she needs to get over it. I use pronouns, okay? No disrespect intended.
Now that I think about it, I have encountered something like this… but in the Japanese language, not in English. In Japanese, there are a lot of different words for “I” that you’re supposed to choose from based on your gender and the level of formality called for in the conversation, and it’s considered informal or rude to use any second- or third-person pronouns at all. In fact, the third-person female pronoun is often used as slang meaning “girlfriend,” so you definitely don’t want to use it to refer to your mother because not only would it be rude, it would also have incestuous overtones! Now, this isn’t a big problem because Japanese is one of those “pro-drop” languages where you can omit the subject pronoun of sentences after you’ve established who you’re talking about. (This can cause problems when you try to translate from Japanese to English with the sentences out of order, because it might not be clear who’s doing what.)
Even in English, I can understand that people might think it’s rude to talk about your mom without using the word “Mom” to establish that she’s the subject of the conversation. But in the example that MeanOldLady gives, the father has already established that “Mom” is the subject, so it shouldn’t be considered rude to use pronouns from then on.
The only difference was that my father got huffy and said “Don’t call your mother she” And it is bizarre - I wasn’t supposed to repeat “Mom” over and over again (although I sometimes did,just to be a wise-ass), but it also wasn’t sufficient that the other person had already referred to her by name. If it was about grammar or clarity, a single reference would have been enough.And it wasn’t about referring to someone who is present in the third person- my mother could have been three states away and my father would have had the same reaction. It was supposed to go
My father : So what’d your mother say about X?
Me: Mom said…
I’d never heard this phrase before today, but my WAG: it’s kind of a Travis Bickle “you talkin’ to me? nobody else here…” response. “she” can’t possibly be in reference to your mother – you must be referring to some other female in the family. The cat’s mother, perhaps.
ETA: this was never an issue in my family. Can’t recall if I just naturally avoided pronouns, but the problem never arose.
Omg. I am so glad others have heard this. I am first generation American, my parents are German and my father lived in Canada several years. I wasn’t sure of the origin of “She” being disrespectful and honestly I don’t remember my parents saying it as a kid, but as soon as I had my daughter was school age my parents started in on her about calling me “She”. She is NOT being disrespectful to me when she is doing it and it doesn’t offend me, but my father comes completely unglued. Which usually causes him and I to argue. I an really frustrated because I think this is ridiculous. it would be different if I raised her knowing this stupid rule but I didn’t and she is now 21 and this must stop. My father even put in her birthday card a reminder not to call me she. UGH!!! Sorry to vent.
I think your father gets a bit more unglued than mine did- but mine was of German/Austrian descent. Wonder if it’s an ethnic thing?
May as well contribute to this zombie…
Australian, born in 1978. Got this a lot growing up, especially the “cat’s mother” line.
I’m glad this zombie came back up, because I missed it the first time around.
WTF? Apparently there is this eerily global taboo that not only have I never heard of even once, but also makes not a lick of sense. I feel like I’ve discovered that half of us are living in a parallel universe or something. Wouldn’t I have heard a media reference or something to this at least once?
Would the fact that apparently this varies by region in the U.S. have something to do with migrant distribution?
Yes, I got in trouble for calling my mother she.
Of course I only got in trouble when I used the tone an obnoxious teenager who was spitting mad at her mother would use.
Regular polite usage? Not a problem at all.
I vaguely recall something like this when I was growing up back in the 50’s. No cats, though.
It reminds me of when I asked my older sister, “Why did we call Grandmother Kunilou ‘grandmother’ and not ‘grandma’ or ‘maw-maw,’ or something like that?” Her response was, “I don’t remember, but it was pretty clear that she was to be called ‘grandmother.’”