You are pretty fucking naive if you think that (1) spit, snot, dropped food, filthy rinse water, or any other disgusting foreign body in food can’t make some people ill or worse, (2) a victim wouldn’t have a case for a lawsuit or charges, or (3) that it isn’t abuse.
At the very least I’d imagine that such contamination could constitute the kind of health code violation which could cost the owner a substantial fine, if not a period of closure during which neither the restaurant NOR the employees would be making any money.
Fuck no. You’re forgetting tipping out and taxation, not to mention the increased stress of waiting on 25 extra people. That’s 25 extra requests for napkins and drink refills and side orders of sour cream and to go boxes, etc. etc.
Okay, Lezlers let’s see if I can do the math to explain!
For this example, average dinner is $10.00 (entree + soda)
75 people at 10.00 per meal = 750.00 in sales
10% tippers = 75.00 in tips (75 x 1.00).
Sales are 750.00, tip out .02% (15.00) to the bartender and .02% (15.00) to the busboys and tip the food runner $5.00
Total amount tipped out = $35.00
10% of sales required by law to claim for taxes = 75.00
Walk out the door with = $40.00
If I worked 5:00 - 11:00 = $40.00/6 hours = $6.66 per hour
50 people at 10.00 per meal = 500.00 in sales
15% tippers = 75.00 in tips (50 x 1.50)
Sales are 500.00, tip out .02% ($10.00) to the bartender and .02% ($10.00) to the busboy and tip out the food runner $5.00.
Total amount tipped out = $25.00
10% of sales required by law to claim for taxes = $50.00
Walk out the door with = $50.00
If I worked 5:00 - 11:00 = $50.00/6 hours = $8.33
Hmmm, would I rather get 10% average tip, wait on more people, endure more stress, leave with less money than I claimed for taxes?
UncleBill’s tipping philosophy, have never served a friggin’ table in his life.
Never less than $3. Two drinks at $2.50 each? I give $8.
Round bill up to a easy number, then 15% on tab (including tax). (Dinner and drinks - $33, tax - $3.12, tab is $36.12. Round up to $40, move the decimal to $4, add half of $4 ($2) for a $6 tip.) Makes the math easy. Whole numbers and shit. Where by the rulebook, it should be $15% of $33 = $4.95 tip, that $1.05 is worth it TO ME for the easy math, and that buck will mean more to the server than it does to me, percentage-wise. It is like 2.5% of my bill, but over 20% more of the normal tip.
Servers remember the good tippers most of the time, but they ALWAYS remember the bad ones. Future service can vary greatly based on tipping history. At a bar, I’d give the bartender a big tip on my first drink. I’d get noticed faster for my second drink. Same deal with a restaurant I would go to frequently. Quid pro quo. We both benefit.
Just my philosophy, that’s all. I get welcomed back.
No, they don’t. They’re placating you, because it’s probably obvious that you’re a cheap, annoying customer, and it makes more sense to get you out of the door, convinced that your “comaplaint” has been heard. That way, you make less of a scene, and as soon as you leave, everyone laughs their asses off at you in the kitchen. Trust me. I’ve encountered many of your kind, and have had many different managers handle it the same way. Yea, they want customers. But they also know that they will have no dining room staff if they aren’t getting tipped. They’ve served, they know the drill. I have had one manager who would patiently listen to the person whine about how small their portion was, how their steak was overcooked (yet they ate all of it, and didn’t mention this when the server checked on them mid-meal), how the service was slow (during the middle of the dinner rush), prices were too expensive etc. When the person was done, he would stare at them for a second, ask if they were finished and would tell them that McDonalds was down the street. It was fantastic to watch. (of course, if the person had a legitimate complaint regarding the food, we, the servers, will lobby to get them a replacement meal or free dessert. And since this manager had a good idea of his staff, he knew which servers were great, and which were crap.)
OOOOOh, the CONSUMER BUREAU. Who the hell cares? The only time that would come into play was if someone was checking the rating of that specific restaurant with that specific bureau. And each time a complaint is registered, the business that was complained about has a chance to respond to the complaint. So basically, your big SCAREY threat is about as paper as a tiger can get. Enjoy spitty food if you return to a restaurant you’ve stiffed, pal.
First of all, don’t say sorry unless you are. Which, you obviously are NOT. Secondly, my job pays me (on average) $15 an hour. This is why we servers could give a flying fornification about assholes like yourself. You are within your rights to NOT tip at all. And I am within my rights to not give a shit if you get your food before it turns ice cold. Many servers would go a step beyond that. I have to say, while I find the idea of altering food just plain icky, if you walked into my restaurant, I couldn’t think anyone who deserves some kind of restaurant retaliation more. And I’m positive you’ve recieved it without your knowledge.
Enjoy your meal.
I have to agree with SwimmingRiddles on this one.
Just because the manager nods, looks serious, and agrees that there is a problem doesn’t mean he actually thinks there is. He’s as good as anyone else at recognizing an asshole; HammerJoe sounds like just the sort of person that any decent management would ignore. If I had a nickel for every time one of my managers said, “God, what a moron/asshole/idiot that guy was!” after a customer’s lodged some stupid complaint, I’d probably be in retirement by now.
Managers tell you want you obviously want to hear; this doesn’t mean they believe or agree with you. Even if they discount your ticket or give you free dessert, it’s usually just to shut you up and get you to go away. Trust me. They don’t want their bosses to hear about whatever stupid shit you’re bitching about, so they give you what you want so you’ll shut the hell up. This doesn’t mean that they take it nearly as seriously as you think they do.
This doesn’t mean that every customer complaint is automatically invalid in managers’ eyes; people often have valid issues. I’m not saying every server is perfect, or that every server deserves a fabulous tip, or that every customer is always wrong.
But people like HammerJoe, who don’t tip b/c they “just don’t tip,” and then expect fabulous service anyway, and crawl up the manager’s ass about it if they don’t, are not high on anyone’s priority list.
Get over yourself, for God’s sake. You’re not scaring or impressing anyone.
Okay, I have a question. My friends and I often (like once a week, min) visit a bar where we have free drink tickets, courtesy of the management to our organization. Everyone has at least two free drinks.
The drinks are probably worth five dollars each.
Is two dollars a good tip?
NotWithoutRage, you asked an honest question and I’m going to give you an honest answer.
My boss hands out free drink coupons, in the mistaken idea that they will “cultivate business.” I’ve yet to redeem one of these for anyone who stays longer than the time it takes to slurp the free drink. And bail. (Kind of like restaurant coupons that only bring in business for the duration of the coupon.)
People rarely tip on these things; the prevailing thought seems to be, “Well, it SAYS FREE, DAMMIT! So’s the service!”
The fact that you are tipping at all is in your favor, and I applaud. 
If you and your friends total five people, and you each hand the bartender two bucks, that makes ten bucks…if you each had two $5 drinks, your tab would have been $50. And $10 is a 20% tip on that…so yes, that is a good tip.
If, on the other hand, the TOTAL tip is $2–and I hope that’s not the case–then that is a very poor tip. It would be much more civil, in that case, for everybody to chip in two bucks. (It isn’t much per person, but it adds up and hey, the drinks are free.)
Here’s food for thought, however: a local bar used to have BARE night…(Bar and Restaurant Employee night) where the drinks were free for two hours as long as you had proof you were a server/bartender. Everybody from work would go over there and hand the bartender $20 when we walked in the door. For a free night’s worth of drinking, $20 isn’t crap…and that’s all we tipped/paid, all night long.
But between us, from five to fifteen people, that was $100 to $300 bucks…whatever we wanted, all night long, regardless of when the two hours ended. And you’ve never seen a bartender so happy to hook us up with whatever we wanted, whenever we went there, even if it wasn’t BARE night.
A free drink is an opportunity to build a relationship with (a) bartender(s) that will hold you in good stead if you go there often. It isn’t required, or even expected, that you tip really well b/c the drinks were free b/c of a coupon/event/promo…but it’s a good way to become a VIP without having to shell out much cash.
And nobody can make you look cooler when you’re on a date than the bartender who knows your name and hooks you up with great drinks and talks you up to him/her like you’re The Man/The Woman.
Just something to consider.
Jeezus Louizus! I just read my way through this whole mess of a thread, and I can’t believe what a bunch of cheapskates some of you are!
Yes, cheapskates.
“Oh, but it takes the same amount of effort to bring two plates to a table as one!”
“Tipping should follow one consistent rule!”
“Why should I pay someone to bring a plate to a table?”
“Sounds like you servers just want people to do whatever gets you the biggest tip! Whatta bunch of greedies!”
I just can’t believe some people would “not tip on tax,” or quibble about tipping on the pre-discount amount, or bother choose a specific percentage point based on the details of your service.
If you’re looking for loopholes, then you’re a cheapskate.
And I am wondering where you all go where you get such bad service that you have to make such a big fuss about choosing a tip percentage that reflects what kind of service you get. I almost always get good service. Maybe I just choose good restaurants, or maybe I’m a nice customer, or maybe I’m more forgiving of the ordinary foibles of waiting tables than others, but I usually get what I think is good service. In fact I usually don’t even notice the service, so that means it’s good. Of course I have lower expectations when eating at Denny’s vs. La Casa Maison House, but if I receive good service for the kind of place that I am at, then I’m happy. (There have been a few notable occasions where I’ve received spectacularly bad service, and in those cases I leave no tip and complain to the manager.)
When I eat out, I like to enjoy the meal and the company. I don’t sit around judging the waitress on her every move.
And I just don’t get why you’re complaining about how hard it is to “do the math.” Just take the final total, move the decimal and double it to get 20%. When in doubt, round up. It makes your life easier, and the few extra pennies mean a lot to the waitress.
Examples:
If your check is $38.56–round up to $40. Move the decimal–$4. Double it–$8. So the tip is $8. (a true $20% tip would have been $7.71.)
If you had a two-fer coupon, and the entrees are about $15 each, and your final bill is $25, then just add on the imaginary $15 (you can add, right?). So you have an adjusted bill of $40. Tip is $8.
I don’t care how broke you are. I’m extremely broke at the moment, and I still tip decently. If I have limited amount of funds, I’ll order a less expensive entree or skip the coffee at the end of the meal so I have enough to tip 20%.
Maybe if you find all the loopholes, you’ll have another dollar in your pocket, but you’ll still be a cheapskate. Be a mensch. Tip well.
Sheesh. It’s not that hard.
Nitpick: The owners have regularly come to my table and known my name at three restaurants in Miami (Mr. Moe’s, Titanic, Caffe Violetto), two in Savannah (Savannah Brewing Co, Moon River Brewery), two in Beaufort, SC (The Bank, Back Street Grill), and one in Buffalo (Buffalo Brewing Co).
Greenie, though I’ve only met you once, I can honestly say that I can’t imagine the concept of you being as obnoxious as HammerJoe would even cross your mind.
Which raises another interesting point: NO ONE tips better as a collective group then New Yorkers. I’ve had demanding customers with Long Island accents, polite customers with a little Brooklyn tinge, and everything in between. But I’ve NEVER been stiffed by a New Yorker. I’ve found that New Yorkers see 20% as the starting point for decent service, and it goes up from there. Yea!
I’m glad I don’t live in America, and glad I don’t go out to dinner anyway, because it looks like a potentially horrible experience.
I’m particularly alarmed by the fact that wait staff will deliberately go out of their way to make things horrible for the customer if they so desire, just because they can!
FUCK that’s horrific! And you seem to think that’s well within your rights? Argh! What the hell kind of job is it where you can do that and get away with it?
What if you get stiffed a tip the first time you serve a person. Is it a guarantee that you will mark this person a sa target for next time, and immediately treat him like crap? Or do you give him the benefit of the doubt, and a second chance. Because maybe some people don’t give the right tips out of necessity or ignorance. I know I’d be totally at a loss as to what the correct procedure is. Especially since I think the whole idea of tipping is barbaric (in that wait staff are forced into having to rely on that to get a decent wage out of their crappy job)
Yikes.
Guano, darlin’, it’s a cultural thing. Personally, I find the idea of Vegemite a bit disturbing myself, but I respect it as a cultural thing. Same with “no right on red” in Quebec and all the other foibles we must adjust to when traveling.
Here, EVERYONE knows what proper ettiquite is. There’s no “ignorance” possible. Whether or not they choose to act properly is another story. HammerJoe is a good example; he knows what he’s supposed to do, he just doesn’t do it. And as far as necessity, we’ve discussed that in the thread: in the States, if you can’t afford to tip on the meal, then you shouldn’t be eating there at all. The tip should be considered part of the expense of eating out. Unless, of course, the service is markedly bad.
I’m not so sure about that. I learned lots of things that I didn’t know from this thread, and I’ve lived in the US my whole life.
Among other things, most people who haven’t worked in a restaurant don’t know any of this stuff about taxation or “tipping out,” and many of us would be honestly confused about whether to tip on the bill before or after coupons. These things aren’t intuitive. And then you have mathematically challenged folks who have trouble figuring 15% of anything and can’t seem to estimate accurately either. I suspect a lot of “bad tippers” are really just ignorant or confused rather than malicious (although HammerJoe is probably one of the malicious ones).
Eh, GuanoLad, it’s nowhere near as complicated as some people in this thread make it out to be. Tip 20% of the total and you’ll be tipping correctly in the vast majority of cases.
As far as servers having to rely on tips to get a decent wage–The system basically works. That’s why we still have it. We’ve focused on the flaws, but there are good points to it as well. Good servers who work in good restaurants can end up with an excellent hourly wage. The restauranteurs can keep their costs down and stay in business. And the general public can eat at nice restaurants with good service for a reasonable cost.
But all that depends on the customers tipping at the expected 15-20%.
Yeah, you can get away with not tipping, but the system as it stands depends on tipping. So, if someone feels like they’re getting a big bargain or something by undertipping, they’re being a jerk, because they’re undermining the system that gets them good food and good service at a reasonable price.
But the opart that disturbs me is the horrible way customers could get treated in response to a bad tip. Maybe the customer has no idea that he’s giving out a bad tip, he thought 5% is still standard. So next time he goes there and gets crappy service and doesn’t tip at all. End result, nobody’s happy, all due to ignorance.
The idea of going out to dinner is to enjoy the meal, not evaluate the service. I’ve never paid any attention to the service, frankly, as it tends to be pretty average no matter where I go. Nowhere leaps out as being amazingly great or particularly bad.
I dunno - as a cultural phenomenon, I reckon it should be reconsidered. But I suppose it isn’t easy to do that.
Well, it’s certainly abusive - I’m not arguing about that.
But what would they base the lawsuit on? I’m sure that people sneeze in public kitchens all the time, and other people probably get colds/flu, etc. etc. The probably cough. They probably slop water when they’re in a hurry, all by accident.
How would a prosecutor prove that the presence of spit/snot/dish water, etc in someone’s food was intentional, rather than accidental?
And Reprise, I’m sure that the health board would shut a place down in a second if they found it. It’s the finding out that I’m not so sure about.
FWIW, my daughter would probably LOVE the US system - she might actually get paid according to the service she provides instead of her age.
I guess if someone still thinks 5% is standard, then he is being willfully ignorant. Fretful Propentine points out that there was a lot she didn’t know about tipping. Fair enough. But she knew that 15% is a standard tip. So she wouldn’t be too far off the mark in any case. Now she knows to tip on the pre-discount amount. Ignorance fought. Yay.
Look, I know several people who are (to use FP’s term) mathematically challenged. And they carry little cards with them that list 15% and 20% of various amounts, which they pull out when they are figuring the check. They don’t use their mathematical incompetence as an excuse to stiff the waiter.
As far as “punishing” people for bad tipping–when I was a waitress, I never treated anyone “like crap” or adulterated food. I viewed occasional bad tippers as an occupational hazard. I put up with them. I gave them decent service. But I sure didn’t go out of my way to do anything special for them. Of course I gave people a second chance. People do make mistakes. But if you eat out often enough to be a regular, I would expect that you know how to tip.
And in my experience, the bad tippers usually got pawned off on the clueless new waitress who wasn’t going to last anyway. (Yet another way bad tippers end up with bad service.) In the restaurant business, there is a lot of “you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours.” If you tip out generously to the busboy, he’ll work hard to help you clear your tables. If you are nice to the cook (helping him or bringing him a soda or whatever) he’ll oblige you if you ask for special favors like hurrying a meal. And if the manager (or whoever’s seating people) knows someone’s a bad tipper, he’ll seat them in the section of a waitress that he doesn’t like. And if he doesn’t like the waitress, it’s a good bet that she’s not a good waitress.
I hope that made sense.
I meant that we each would tip two dollars per drink. Because we get two free ones, you’re right that we often don’t go for the third. However, we only get the tickets one night a week, and every other night that any of us goes out, that particular bar is the bar of choice.