Doper parents - do you yell or snap?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Hi guys,

I’m super bugged about this and not sure what to do.

Mr. smaje and I have a gorgeous, wonderful baby, aptly named baby smaje. She’s almost 23 months and really well behaved, fun, sweet, goofy. But she’s still a 23-month-old, so she does also stuff that’s really annoying: dropping food on the floor on purpose, trying to grab the tv remotes (she loves those remotes), refusing to pick up her crayons.

I am not a patient person. I am a tense, often angry person. But this baby melts my butter and I find that I can be almost infinitely patient with her. I very rarely get angry with her; and when I do, she gets a time-out in the crib and I get a time-out in the other room, so we can both calm down. If she throws food on the floor, I calmly tell her “no” and explain why not, and if she keeps doing it, she gets a time out. No yelling, just calm but firm.

Mr. smaje, however, has recently started snapping at her. He raises his voice with a big “NO!” sometimes and it seems to shake her to her baby core. He thinks she’s “testing” him when she does someone wrong over and over. To be fair, she gets this evil glint in her eye sometimes, and it does seem that she knows what she’s doing is wrong – but if she is testing us, I feel like we just need to be firm and repetitive.

I want to save the yelling for when she wanders into the street and I have to scream “NO!” Or if she’s about to touch the hot stove: “NO!” But Mr. smaje is doing it for small things.

Mr. smaje has been “snapping” at her about 2-3 times per week, for what I consider to be small infractions. I’ve spoken with him about it twice. I told him that as a female, the scariest thing in the world to me growing up was when my dad raised his voice at me. Daddies can be big and scary when they yell (I mean, all parents can be big and scary when they yell – this is just my personal experience growing up with a dad who would be mostly calm and then freak the f**k out about stuff). Mr. smaje appeared to agree with me, but last night he snapped at her again.

It makes her sad and scared, and it makes me super sad and angry. Again, he is an AMAZING dad and baby smaje adores him, but I’m worried that this is turning into a habit. And that baby smaje will end up feeling scared of him the way I was scared of my dad as a kid. We are running a very loving household, with many kind words and hugs. I just feel like this snapping has come out of nowhere, but needs to go away fast.

Any suggestions?

Just a note: Mr. smaje does not come from an abusive family at all – I’ve never heard either of his parents raise their voice in anger. I come from an extremely emotionally fluffed-up family, where shouting and screaming were common.

2

This is the reason I’ll never be a parent…

But… bless you for being parents; without that, the human race wouldn’t last very long!

I think that yelling is wrong, except for the very biggest things (like you said, hot stoves.) The escalation should be soft, firm, firmer, and then physical restraint. (Not pounding or slapping, but simply holding the little one so that it is clear the behavior will not continue because it can not continue.

What is the ultimate expression? Here, there can be no agreement. Some say, yes, you can give the kid a mild whap on the butt or the wrist. Others say no.

But yelling as an instrument of policy is not a good idea. For one thing, it’s “caloric,” i.e., what is taken in comes out. It risks creating a kid who yells.

(Another reason I’ll never be a parent; my papa hit. A lot. Hard. And I know I would too. And so must not.)

ETA: What does everyone think about the idea of a “code word?” Like the classic use of the middle name. “Archer. Archer! Archer Midlands Daniel!” Or “Thin Ice!” or “Orange Alert” or some other code that indicates to the kid that the situation is approaching a crisis?

3

I guess I don’t know what “snapping” is. I think it’s kind of a loaded question, one of those connotation things: I am firm, you snap, he screams. I certainly raise my voice when I am telling the baby (11 months) “No”, but I don’t think it’s snapping. But I wouldn’t, would I? I do feel like a little extra volume makes it clear that this is a different mode of communication, and that’s a good thing.

4

I haven’t yelled or “snapped” at either girl for years. It gets easier once they go away to college.

5

Sorry, I should have described it better. The “snap” I speak of is much louder than firm. And there’s no escalation with Mr. smaje when this happens – there’s no firm “No” and then an extra-firm, very serious “No!” He’s been going straight to “NO!” – a full-on shout that makes baby stop in her tracks and burst into tears. He very, very, very rarely shouts or yells (either do I) and I’m concerned because it seems to be a new thing.

6

Every parent’s primary occupation, ahead of being a parent, is being human. Someone pressing your buttons enuf, no matter how cute and cuddly, will eventually irritate you to the point of snapping at the little one. It’s the people who never blow off steam that I worry about - they will eventually totally flip-out and maybe get physical - which is bad.

I am glad you guys are discussing it rationally and there is not a problem calling it when it comes up. That is a big step. Lack of sleep and other irritations of living with a 23 month-old can erode good communications.

I have snapped and yelled and barked at my kids as they were growing up (both early teens now). My hand was always restrained, but I did grab the arm and make them sit somewhere and listen to why what they were doing was making me sad and annoyed, then they stayed there for a time-out to think about it, and then I would ask why they got the time-out and have them explain it to me. If you are worried that it made them afraid of me, fear not - as today they talk back as good as any teen! I think it is important for kids to see their parents as humans that can get angry and sad and irritated at something they are doing.

7

Mr. smaje seems to be stressed out. No one should be yelling at a 2 year old. They’re too young to understand. It’s hard work keeping up with a toddler, and bad news for you, it’s gonna get worse before it gets better. I suggest find out if something in particular is stressing out the old man. Perhaps he just can’t handle this stage of child rearing. Men often aren’t good at it.

8

And to clarify:

There’s no doubt in my mind that he is being wrong about this. The shouting is a new thing, and it’s worrying me. I’ve already spoken about it with him twice, but I don’t think he thinks it’s a big deal.

As a child from a shouting family, I know for a fact that it is a BAD thing to shout at your 2-year-old for dropping peas on the floor. It’s not a constant screaming, it’s usually just one or two shouted words. But I don’t want it to continue, and I don’t want it to get worse.

Here’s a different way of thinking about it:

Is there something your spouse does that drives you crazy, when it comes to raising your kids? Like, mom gives the kids 14 cookies before bedtime, and dad says that’s a bad idea? Or dad gives kids way too much allowance money, and mom thinks the kids should have to work harder to earn it?

I want to convince my husband that his way of handling the situation (i.e., yelling) is NOT good parenting.

9

Thanks for the suggestion, TriPolar. I think he is under a lot of stress, mostly from his job.

This is the first time we’ve really had a big difference in how we raise the baby. :frowning:

10

Snowthx, I’ve brought it up with him, but I don’t think he agrees with me that the yelling is unnecessary. I rarely am of the firm belief that I am 100% correct about anything, but I realllllly feel like I’m right about this one.

And he’s not yelling at her when he’s reached the end of his rope – he’s just snapping immediately, instead of talking to her calmly first and then escalating.

I’ll speak with him again the next time it happens. I just want to figure out a way to get my argument across that it’s not doing him or her any good when he yells like that.

11

Meh. Some people think shouting is a big deal, Italians call it “talking”. I don’t think raising your voice to a 2 year old is something I’d get too bent out of shape about.

12

This thread is too painful to read. Loud yelling at a baby is completely out of line. She now associates fear at her “baby core” with her father’s voice. He must stop this. Immediately. Someone has to be the grownup. I must leave this thread right now.

13

My daughter is 19 months and just starting to be a little rapscallion. I have a couple times in the last week wondered if yelling would do anything. My instantaneous conclusion has always been that it would only scare her and make her harder to manage. But believe me, I feel the temptation.

My husband, in these situations (always at the end of the day, always over something nonnegotiable, always when I’m present so he feels pressured to be a “good dad” by getting the task done quickly and without fuss) says “I’m gonna whip you!” which I also hate. He WON’T whip her, but it’s how he blows off steam.

I don’t have any solutions for you, just saying that I’m in exactly the same boat.

It’s really hard to tell what’s just a temper tantrum and what’s deliberate pushing of parental buttons. And I am constantly remembering a once-upon-a-time thread in which someone said that it’s valuable for kids to sometimes see their parents snap. It makes them realize that parents are human, too.

14

@ThelmaLou, please don’t leave the thread. Offer me some advice on how to convince someone that they’re doing something wrong, even if they don’t see it. Baby smaje does not yet associate her daddy’s voice with rage, but I want to put a stop to this before she does.

@Sattua, it is good to know that other parents are going through this.

Baby smaje definitely sees us freak out on occasion – I burned my hand on the stove just yesterday and had some choice words for that particular appliance, but both me and Mr. smaje were quick to let explain that mommy hurt her hand, it was an owie, I was sad but I’d get over it. She seemed perfectly fine with that. :slight_smile:

I think Mr. smaje thinks the yelling is a good way to get her immediate attention – I think it’s lazy parenting.

15

Whether or not his parents raised their voices in the past doesn’t matter, because he is raising his voice now. This is really an issue between him and you, not him and the baby. The fact that he doesn’t think yelling is wrong means you have to take steps and work this out, preferably sooner than later. It is important to present a united front to the child when co-parenting, and it doesn’t sound like that’s happening. Moreover, I would be concerned about eventual escalation. If he yells loudly now at the smallest amount of obnoxious defiance, what’s he going to do when she’s a teenager?

I recommend stress-reduction techniques*, more sleep, and less face-time with the child for him. And, potentially, couples-counseling for both of you if this doesn’t work (or if he isn’t receptive to criticism). I’d expect a counselor could help him understand that it’s wrong to scream at a helpless, dependent child who is unable to communicate meaningfully with others. Some people can be convinced of their flaws by a disinterested, professional third party, even when they won’t listen to their own flesh and blood. So that may be a future step you wish to take.

*Meditation works for me, but it isn’t for everybody. Maybe he needs anger management, anti-anxiety medication, or a less-stressful job.

16

One thing to consider, is he getting the same kind of attention from you that he got before the baby? Us guys tend to be a little emotionally immature and sometimes feel neglected. Not saying that’s a justified feeling, but something to consider.

17

Mr. smaje actually stayed at home with baby smaje for the first 9 months of her life – I was working a full-time office job, and he was working part-time from home. He was so patient with her then, at a time when I could sometimes barely handle her. Now it’s a role reversal – I’m more patient while he can’t deal with certain things.

But stress is definitely a factor here, and I’m surprised I didn’t realize it sooner. I just came off an extremely stressful 6 months at work, and his working is just now starting to really ramp up (to the point where he’s often questioning whether he can actually DO the job).

And TriPolar, you bring up a really good point about feeling neglected. It’s good to hear a guy’s take on this stuff! I’m taking care of him on the surface – cooking him nice meals, rubbing his feet, going on dates with him – but we’ve gotten a bit distant lately. I’m not sure what to do about that. Our lives do kinda revolve around the baby – where we go, what we do, when we eat.

18

This may be more work than you’re up to right now, but would you be willing to try an experiment?

He’s got a bad habit. He doesn’t think it’s important, so he’s not really interested in changing, nor does he really want to put much effort into thinking of something else to do instead. So, you’ve got to fix BOTH of those problems in order to get this to change.

First: Thinking this is important.
Think of something else he does that minorly bugs you. Maybe he throws his socks on the floor instead of in the laundry basket. Maybe he starts taking out the trash, but leaves it by the door for three hours while he’s distracted by the TV or internet (or baby). Maybe he gets toothpaste all over the sink.

Pick something minor, and something you can catch him at. For about three to five occurances of whatever this is, catch him in the act, and immediately scream like you’re dying. Loud. High pitch. Go for the “OMG There’s a SPIDER IN MY EYEBALL!” volume. Then, when he freaks out - very calmly and quietly tell him that you really don’t like it when he leaves toothpaste in the sink, and this is the best way to get his attention and get him to stop. Give him the stink-eye, and immediately head off to whatever you were doing before. Don’t say anything else at the time. Then do it again later, and again later. When he starts jumping guiltily whenever you walk in the room, you have accomplished your first misson.

With this real concrete example, you’ve demonstrated that his own yelling isn’t a real good feeling for the yellee, and that it escalates a situation that doesn’t need it.
Second mission: Figuring out what to do instead.

It’s great and all to say: “Look, Mr, that isn’t cool - it’s freaking me out, it isn’t good parenting, and I don’t want you to do it anymore.”

Of course he’s going to either shrug it off or say “yes dear” to you - you’re criticizing his parenting! Even if he somewhat agrees with you, it’s way hard to think of something else to try instead, and you admit that he’s busy and a bit stressed right now.

But I think you’ve nailed it that this is him just getting into a lazy habit - he’s not real motivated to change, so he’s not going to put much effort into it.

Now, what you have to do ahead of time is think of a concrete alternative to demonstrate to him. Once you’ve made your point about how important this is, tell him SPECIFICALLY what you want him to do instead. And I do mean specifically. Really really really specific.

“Mr, I want you to start by getting the baby’s attention, and in a gentle soft tone of voice, try to distract her to some other activity. Then, if that doesn’t work, raise your eyebrows, look straight at her, and say NO in a firm but quiet voice. Then, if that doesn’t work, please physically remove her from the situation while repeating NO in that same quiet voice.” (that is just an example from a friend’s baby)

Ask him on his honor to attempt to use that method instead of just going straight to NO! with the baby.

Understand that he will flub this, and forget, but you can tell from how he reacts if he’s sincerely trying to change or not. New habits take about 3 weeks to set in solidly, so keep encouraging him, and don’t forget to notice and thank him for when he does catch himself and does the alternative.

Good luck!

19

In some ways, you’re lucky. You’re lucky that he’s just snapping at the kid, rather than exploding and lashing out at everyone for hours at a time. You’re lucky he’s not hitting her, or you. You’re lucky that the neighbors haven’t called the cops, because of all the loud swearing and slamming of doors. You’re lucky you haven’t had to take your daughter to the ER, because of your husband’s reactions to minor transgressions. You’re lucky you can talk this issue over with him, and not let the talk itself become explosive. You’re lucky he doesn’t lash out at you when you bring up the subject. And you’re lucky this issue is called “policy,” rather than a crazy man who has no control over his temper.

Don’t let your family become the family I grew up in. It’s up to you to protect your child, no matter what the cost. From what I’ve heard, my father began “snapping” when I was still a baby, and it gradually escalated. Don’t wait until he starts hitting . . . or beating the crap out of her. By then, it’ll be too late.

Your husband has anger issues, and he needs to get professional help. If you really love him, help him heal whatever is hurting him inside. If he doesn’t get help, his anger will grow out of control. This is something that will affect your daughter for the rest of her life . . . and you and your husband as well.

20

I disagree with this - MAYBE your husband has anger issues.

What I think is way more likely is that the man is stressed. Parent’s don’t turn into patient loving angels as soon as the baby arrives, and people don’t all know how to deal with their stress (or have outlets to deal with their stress) in positive ways.

Some people even have a hard time with toddlers rather than tiny babies simply because the toddler IS testing them (and don’t believe for an instant that the baby is NOT testing you both - she is, and that’s how she figures out where and how secure her boundaries are - keep up the good work with being patient and firm, but she will keep testing those reactions all the time) some people see that testing as being insubordinate or disrespectful or even purposefully aggravating - that can be hard to deal with when the aggravator is a tiny little child that you love and want to protect, but she insists on trying to eat your tv remote every 5 minutes, and you can’t keep her distracted from it because she’s both smart and stubborn.

Help him figure out good ways to deal with the kid, good ways to signal you to step in because he’s had enough of her for now, and good ways to let off steam and worry from other parts of his life so he’s in a better place to be patient and gentle with her, and I think you’ll be just fine.

Not every stressed-out dad (or mom) is an angerball waiting for the right trigger to start being abusive.