Transcript of my upstairs neighbors’ conversation with her screaming five-year-old:
“GOD DAMMIT SALLY!!! YOU RUIN EVERY FUCKING THING!!! GOD DAMMIT SALLY!!! DAMMIT SALLY!!! WHY THE FUCK DO YOU HAVE TO RUIN IT!!! WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU!!!”
Now, “Sally’s” a cute kid. I can understand why she’d be a little hyper or tend to act out, being cooped up in an apartment with no playmates on a sunny day.
I have couple of severely hyperactive nieces and nephews who I occasionally watch, and while I’ve raised my voice with them, I’ve never actually directed any adult-level personal insults at them. When I yell, it’s first and foremost to get their attention, not to berate them.
That kind of hollering really bothers me. So, is this woman out of line, or am I reading too much in to it?
Out of line and over the top, although if this is the only time you’ve ever heard anything like that, I’d possibly excuse it as a one-time thing; maybe little Sally set fire to Great Grandma Myrtle’s handmade shawl that was passed down through the generations or something. (Not that this really excuses screaming obscenities at a 5-year-old, but at least it would be halfway understandable.)
Yes, very over the top, and probably counter productive as well. She’s literally teaching Sally that Sally ruins everything. So Sally internalizes that, and true to form, ruins stuff.
To some small degree, yelling can relive tension, and a yell is usually better than a physical hit. But that’s a very small amount before it starts to cause its own kind of damage. The specific level of okayness varies with the adult/child duo, but what you’re describing sounds way into damage territory for even the most frustrated adult and thickskinned kid.
Unfortunately, there’s probably little you can do about it if this is a recurring problem. She needs some parenting classes, but good luck getting her to take them.
You might consider doing what you can to “catch” Sally being good whenever you can. Don’t praise her for meaningless shit, but pay attention and praise her and ask her questions about things that she does do that are worth praising: “That’s a great snowman, Sally! I noticed you working on it really hard all afternoon? What made you think of using a potato for his eyes?” If you get the chance to introduce her to a guest, add something positive: “This is my neighbor Sally; she worked really hard to learn how to ride her bike last summer!” or even, “Sally is the most energetic person I’ve ever met!” (said with a smile). Hopefully having a decent adult around will help her learn that she’s not shit, it’s her mother.
The mom’s a moron and doesn’t know crap about how to properly discipline a child. She’s setting herself up for loads of trouble down the line.
(BTW, WhyNot, every time I open one of these parenting threads you’ve already said what I was going to say in both greater detail and more polished prose. It saves me lots of typing!)
Over the top, but all parents lose their shit once in a while. You can’t judge a mom by her worst moment. Anyone who’s never once gone off on their kids hasn’t spent any time with them.
Definitely counter-productive. It doesn’t take long for a kid to tune out when mom raises her voice. It’s not the swearing that bothers me but the belittling.
Years ago I had a neighbor whose favorite threat to her little ones was "Stop that right now or I’ll rip off your arm and beat you with the bloody stump!’
Kids can make you say things you know you shouldn’t say to a kid. Once my kid stepped on my bad toenail (on purpose, if you ask me) and all that came out from me was “WTF is the matter with you”, while I ran for first aids. Once the bleeding was under control, I looked for him and explained to him what had happened. Hugging ensued.
Now, if you tell me that this is what you hear every day, that’s a different story. Kids can get to us, but not every day.
I guess I’d say it depends on whether this is a regular thing or a one-time loss of temper. Sally’s Mom reminds me an awful lot of what I got from my own mother every day, and it was pretty painful. If you had to hear this all the time I could definitely understand your conflict because being constantly berated causes real emotional damage. However, emotionally abusing your child is not illegal (and even in egregious cases, it’s just about impossible to prove) so there’s probably not a whole lot you can do about it.
That woman must have taken lessons from my father, who was known for his quick, uncontrollable temper . . . and yes, he got physical. To this day I still cringe when I hear that kind of rage.
If it’s usual and not a one-off, definitely. I cringed and felt shame just reading the OP. I can’t imagine–or rather, horribly, I can imagine–how that poor little girl feels. Undisciplined discipline is as bad as no discipline.
It sounds like the woman I say screaming at her toddler in the shopping cart. the kids said can we get milk. The mom screamed back We’re not getting mother fucking milk. Stop fucking asking for mother fucking milk. The conversation probably verified a small amount from what I just typed, but I won’t forget the use of mother fucking being screamed at a kid that asked for milk.
I’ve heard the same sort of thing. I play flag football once a week and a woman, a 4(ish) year old boy, a stroler-bound little girl, and a dog come to the park.
She berates him the moment they step out of their car until they get back in it. She quotes the OP’s neighbor verbatim. The little boy says nothing back and sometimes runs away from her. We haven’t seen them in a month or so since it’s colder now, but it happened about 3 weeks in a row at the end of the summer. No physical abuse, but the verbal abuse was so loud and harsh that it caused us all to stop playing and stare a her slack-jawed.
I told myself the next time I’d get a plate number and call the police. But the oppurtunity has not presented itself again.
Black Rabbit, I think this woman is completely out of line. What good is yelling and swearing at a 5-year-old going to do. Are they even capable of the logic behind it at that age? And really, isn’t the logic behind yelling just that it’s intimidating and frightening?
I keep reading that speaking with a low and deliberate voice lets a kid know that they need to straighten up more effectively than yelling and screaming. What a jerk.
Unfortunately, I’m not really sure what you can do about it. I figured I could call the police in my case since it happened in public. But there was no physical abuse. I don’t even know if CPS would look into verbal abuse.
You could always bang on her door and say, “Would you mind not yelling and swearing at your kid so much? My little nephew is over and we’re trying to watch a Dateline special on bad parenting and can barely hear the TV. Plus, I don’t want him to hear the language you’re using.”
Otherwise, what WhyNot said.