Incorrect according to the sources I have. When does that book say MDMA was used in marriage counseling? What sources I have indicate that was happening in the 1980s. However, according to:
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_timeline.php3
There is a published report of MDMA abuse as early as 1970, and A. Shulgin mentions in PiHKAL taking it himself recreationally, and he introduced it to other who took it that way in the late 1960s.
P.S. Gyan, it kinda sucks that your thread just died there. I must have missed that one, or I would have stopped lurking a while ago. I’m no neuroscience grad. student (yet), but I love this stuff.
FWIW, I think the overwhelming weight of the evidence right now supports the MDMA-as-neurotoxin theory. I think the important thing to keep in mind is that the term “brain damage” gets thrown around so often and is so frightening to some that it kind of loses its meaning after awhile. As your cite points out, (and as mine does), there seem to be some long-term (if not permanent) changes occuring in the brain, but whether that’s really ultimately detrimental is uncertain.
A couple more quotes (this time a little more pertinent to the discussion) before I close this one out–
First, an explanation of “oxidative stress”–
Followed by the evidence–
Gyan, if I’m reading your cite correctly (and God knows I’m probably not), it seems the researchers there suspected serotonergic downregulation as the major culprit in the so-called neurotoxic effect of MDMA. Perhaps the real problem lies in the “oxidative stress” introduced by the drug.
Additionally, it seems the researchers you cited questioned whether axonal deterioration was occurring at all. As for what criteria is best suited for measuring this phenomenon I confess I am a bit out of my league–my understanding of the process is too rudimentary to really comment in a knowledgeable fashion.
Perhaps the best way of going about this is to look for behavioral changes–
Jesus. What happened to the days we could all point at a rotted out hippocampus and say, “Yep. That thar’s some Brain Damage.” Now we’re doing it on a neuron-to-neuron basis. Crazy.
And even then I’d be weary. I regret to this day certain prescriptions given me by a doctor 20 years ago…
Is this the same stuff we used to call “MDA?” Without the extra “M”? What’s the difference?
(As to the OP…casual use of anything is usually not bad or dangerous).
MDMA:
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_timeline.php3
MDA:
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mda/mda_timeline.php3
They are chemically related, and share certain psychoactive properties. However, they are 2 different drugs.[QUOTE=rfgdxm]
Incorrect according to the sources I have. When does that book say MDMA was used in marriage counseling? What sources I have indicate that was happening in the 1980s.
[QUOTE]
Well shit, I misremembered the timeline. Here’s what I’ve got–
[ol]
[li]Synthesized in 1910[/li][li]Patented by Merck in 1914[/li][li]Drug languishes until 1939, when it’s used as an experimental substance in animals[/li][li]CIA runs clandestine tests in 1953-54.[/li][li]Shulgin and Greer report success with MDMA as, among other things, an entactogen (making it potentially useful as a drug for marriage counseling) (1984?)[/li][li]DEA ruthlessly and predictably shoots down MDMA as a therapeutic, puts it on US CSA Schedule I list in 1986[/li][/ol]
…I feel stupid…
Most probably. I remember reading about a speculation on the mechanism of MDMA neurotoxicity. It went like this: MDMA triggers massive serotonin release and some dopamine release. The dopamine manages to enter the serotonin neurons, reacts with MAO where the byproduct is hydrogen peroxide which ultimately destroys the axon. That source also claimed that taking SSRI (especially Prozac) within six hours of MDMA consumption eliminated (or perhaps just reduced) the damage.
This is just a rough recollection. I’ll look around for the source.
Kalhoun
In addendum to what rfgdxm, I remember reading that while scheduling MDMA, the DEA cited MDA to “demonstrate” MDMA’s harm.
You really shouldn’t. Look at that Erowid timeline. Between 1977 and 1985 there was a measly 8 mentions of people ending up in the ER from MDMA abuse according to the Drug Abuse Warning Network data. While MDMA as a drug of abuse was known and used before the DEA put it in Schedule I, for all practical purposes it was an extremely obscure one. Thus, that you were unaware of this is unsurprising.
However, note the use of MDMA as a marriage counseling drug pretty much was quack psychiatry. What these psychiatrists were doing is using what basically was a research chemical on human beings who were acting as guinea pigs. There was little toxicity data available at that point to justify administering it to humans for such a dubious purpose as an aid in marriage counseling.
I thought this thread was supposed to be about X.
From what you said it sounds like you could be talking about dating (and then normally-inevitable termination of said relationship…).
-Joe, X, ex, unintentional cleverness everywhere!
And the trend continues to this very day. Rolling Stone did an article on these guys in April of 2001 I believe. Kind of interesting. I do wish our DEA wasn’t so reactionary. Marijuana and MDMA deserve another look. Never gonna happen though.
No, you’re missing the point made by Mr Marsh. It’s not about productivity. He’s concerned that smoking pot will make Stan content and lazy and that as a result he will never find real activities that make him truly happy. And lets be honest, pot does have a pretty demotivating effect on people.
I guess you could always take some coke or speed or something if you want to stay up until 4:00am cleaning your appartment.
Productivity is a valid point though. If you can’t hold a job because you’d rather get high all day, the rest of us FUCTIONING alchoholics/drug adicts have to pick up your slack.
There’s a lot of disinformation on both sides of the fense. Anti drug people would have you believe that one hit of the Chronic will make you insane and lust after white women while pro-drug people will ahve you believe it’s a harmless life-altering experience, man.
There are valid reasons for not taking drugs:
-they can fuck your shit up
-a drug habit is expensive
-it often requires getting involved with a dangerous element of society to acquire them
-they can become physically/mentally addicting
-they are, in fact, illegal and you might not want to get hassled by the cops
-they can make you do stuff that you will regret doing the next day
and there are valid reasons for taking drugs:
-it makes things like parties, raves and other activities more fun
-it seems cool (lets face it, no one gets into drugs because they think it will make them dorkier)
-they can make you do stuff that you will regret doing the next day
MDMA in fact has currently been approved for use in a research study as a psychotherapeutic aid in treating PTSD patients. They have even obtained funding for this study.
Bullpuckey.
I’m too tired to get out the pile o’ books I used as research material when I wrote my term paper on the subject, but there are studies that have largely proven the amotivational syndrome to be myth.
Interestingly, the symptoms of “amotivational syndrome” are pretty much identical to the symptoms of depression, and unmotivated potheads are more than likely self-medicating.
[QUOTE=msmith537]
If you can’t hold a job because you’d rather get high all day, the rest of us FUCTIONING alchoholics/drug adicts have to pick up your slack./QUOTE]
Two typos aside, this would make a great sig line.