I’d just like to thank Amberlei for making the kind of thoughtful, intelligent reply that milroyj really should have made, but didn’t. Thank you, Amberlei.
Carry on.
Oh, for fucks sake.
We’re not talking about a charge of murder, here. It’s not Murder in the First Degree or Second Degree, or anything like that.
So, yes, it’s true you cannot be charged with murder for killing a tiger in the United States. But can you at least see that, outside the strict legal sense, the word murder has more than one meaning?
Beagle said:
Amberlei said:
And I agree with them. That is all I am saying.
As far as the OP, it started out with “The US military is bad” and quickly devolved into “Bush sucks”. Yeah, we got that already. It’s been done before, ad absurdum. I suggest that friend Diogenes makes “Bush sucks” his sig, thereby saving everybody else a whole bunch of time.
And if your sig said “I’m a fucktard without anything useful to say on any topic whatsoever”, or if it just said “Banned” under your username, everybody else would save a whole bunch of time, too. 
Fucktard.
Yeah, one would think that a poster that has been here since '99 would know about things like supporting an argument.
I like how he takes another poster’s opinion and uses it as if it were solid evidence in his case. I still haven’t seen a good case against why murder cannot be applied to animals. Except some idiotic “It isn’t because I say it isn’t” baby talk. This is the straight dope milroyj, you have a long membership here and know how this place works. Put up or shut up. Troll.
Beagle said:
quote:
Nobody in the tiger business would put a tiger down for biting around feeding time. But, it isn’t murder. Murder is the killing of a human being. If you’d like to argue for a change in the existing law, that’s fine.
See spoojes post? There are several just like it as well.
Here is an idea: SUPPORT YOUR ARGUMENT. Other people’s opinions and failed arguments don’t count.
For shit’s sake give it a fucking rest already! Some of you believe that the word murder can apply to animals. Fine. Some of you don’t Fine.
I still maintain that if you can apply the word murder to an animal then it would also be murder to kill ANY other living thing.
There. My worthless two cents yet again.
[sub] yes, I know that I just continued the damn thread hijack but big fucking deal. [/sub]
No, I did not miss “the fine post by Amberlei above” but I did notice that it contradicts your position much more than it supports it.
I also must have missed the memo or post where you said Amberlei was speaking on your behalf. You posted an assertion, you were challenged on it and we expect you to answer the challenge. I see the best that you can do is point at a post which contradicts your position more than supports it.
Congratulations, milroyj. This is the dumbest attempt at debating I’ve seen in my entire time on the boards not coming from an obvious troll. You should be proud.
Murder is a legal term. Technically, murder requires not only the killing of a human being but the required mental state, or mens rea. The actus reus of murder is killing a human being. It’s just that simple. Killing a tiger is not murder unless you can find some sovereign government which makes it murder.
I’m pretty sure it is a crime for a couple of reasons: animal cruelty, endangered species, just to name two.
Again, if you know anything about tigers (based on the handlers I’ve met) you don’t pet them around feeding time. It’s just not done. Nor do you handle or even pet tigers while intoxicated. This is negligence (gross?) on the part of the soldiers.
I used to pet a tiger named Balshoi, sweet as a kitten (that weighed 700 pounds). Around feeding time, I’d just go around and watch their attitudes change from around six feet away. A tiger roaring in your face stinks. Not to mention spraying.
Murder is a legal term and a general term. Your definition is the legal one and is perfectly accurate, but it’s not the only one.
By the way, all these tiger rules I’ve mentioned apply to handling tigers from outside the cage. Actually going inside the cage and working with a tiger takes years of preparation, and may never happen if the particular tiger does not take a liking to you.
And so Diogenes sees again that even when one posts a rant about what should be indefensible behaviour, things will still explode into multi-page atrocities. Like when I posted about witnessing stewardesses post-9/11 with stickers on their luggage saying “Bush Knew”.
The OP is one I agree with 100%, except that I would have also mentioned the “treatment” of the animals at the Kuwait Zoo by Iraqi troops as another example of what happens when out of control soldiers and zoo animals come together. Of course, there can be no comparison of the magnitude of the events - here we’re talking about human stupidity which recognizes no political borders or social bounds, and in the other we’re talking about subhuman barbarism which one would think would be universally decried as well…
I believe my feelings echo those of the OP - if the soldiers were actually being careless, then a court marshall seems in order. And if they were also drunk and in uniform/possession of military hardware (such as their rifles) at the time, it seems that some serious jail time should be warranted, if guilty.
Maybe as “compensation” the US could do something like fund purchase of land for reserve as a habitat for these tigers in whatever countries they originate. That may be overly simplistic, I realize.
Murder is only a legal term, to me. This is obviously cruelty to animals, to wit, a tiger. This was the unnecessary killing of an endangered species. This was drunken, probably, gross negligence on the part of the soldiers. Murder? Maybe in some province of India somewhere, dunno.
You, however, are not the only person involved in this discussion. It obviously means “wanton killing” to many others, and these people do have some dictionary cites to back them up.
That’s not my problem, nor the OP’s then, is it?! 
Murder.
I have to say Miller was right on target in his prediction. The thread is being completely hijacked by this stupid non-argument. milroyj, why don’t you just stop this stupidity? It’s not like you are convincing anyone. You are just pissing people off.
My problem is I can’t open .pdf files on this laptop. This is a synopsis from Camp Doha in Kuwait with other links provided:
http://w3.mivlmd.cablespeed.com/~ashbyj/categories/soldiers/safety.htm
…and I’ve found news reports and bloggers referring to GO-1 being in effect in Iraq, Afghanistan, Qatar, Bosnia…someone else might have better luck w/complete cites.
I don’t know that I was whooshed so much as brushed back. I think the first definition of murder agrees with my point. Unless we have a murder of crows that I missed. Your comment makes me think I am arguing in a vacuum for no reason than to up my already bloated post count. That’s OK too. 
Post count ergo propter count