Mtgman
November 5, 2009, 9:45pm
21
MPB_in_Salt_Lake:
Ever known any attorneys that went to law school in New Orleans (Tulane)?
The few I have hung with (I have spent a “bit” of time in New Orleans, and have made a lot of friends there over the years) were capable of consuming staggering amounts of liquor nightly, and still being highly successful, hard driven achievers…
Oh, I have no doubts on that front. It’s rare to find an attorney who can’t handle their liquor, but the rates of alcoholism seem higher. In fact, in some googling after this post this morning(dreading the reaction of some of our resident attorneys) I discovered that not only have others noticed the higher rates of alcohol abuse among attorneys, but that it’s reasonably well researched.
Alcoholism appears to be more prevalent among lawyers than it is in the general public. According to the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, about seven percent of Americans are alcoholics. In contrast, about 13 percent of lawyers surveyed by the ABA said they drink six or more alcoholic beverages a day. In addition, one third of lawyers on disciplinary probation in California are monitored for substance abuse.
Dave Dawson, vice president of The Other Bar, a lawyer-to-lawyer program for alcoholics, told the California Bar Journal that he estimates between 15 and 17 percent of California attorneys are alcoholics.
Even in the relatively sodden UK , lawyers with alcoholism issues are prevalent .
During the past decade, researchers have found that of all the professionals, lawyers are the most prone to stress, depression
And there is this personal story of a former attorney who reached a very high level in his profession even while battling alcoholism.
I joined a well- respected litigation firm and set out to make up for lost time. Little by little, with the help of many friends in and out of recovery, I made partner and soon was traveling around the country representing important clients.
The time arrived, however, when I forgot that sobriety had really been my key to success. I began to take the credit myself, spending less time with recovering friends and more time with work and travel. As a lawyer, I had been trained to solve problems for others. Surely I could manage my own drinking. One day, after a particularly rewarding verdict, I told myself that one drink wouldn’t hurt. How could it? I had money and status now, things I’d never had before. I certainly wouldn’t throw all this away. I had no doubt that I could control my drinking.
I was wrong. That single drink launched a pattern that was to haunt me for the next 20 years. I was off and running but now I had to do my drinking in secret. In the morning, when the commuters would leave the train and walk east to the Chicago loop, I walked west to a bar on West Madison Street, where I sipped vodka through a straw to hide my shaking hands. It all crumbled eventually; I was back in a hospital, no longer a partner.
I straightened myself out, again, and miraculously found a position as in-house counsel with a Fortune 100 company. This time I stayed sober for seven years. I experienced successes I couldn’t have imagined from the bar on West Madison and I accepted a prestigious assignment in Asia but left my humility in the states. It wasn’t long before I relapsed again and the results were disastrous for my company, my family and me.
Sadly, I was to repeat this pattern several more times: hard, often compulsive work; success, and then temptation by another drink.
And then there was this, from an article published in 1990 in the International Journal of Law and Psychiatry (scanned PDF, typos are likely to be my own)
Our earlier research documented in one state law school in Arizona that the percentage of prospective law students suffering from statistically significant levels of depression, before entering law school, approximated what would be expected in the general populations. Thereafter depression far exceeded the norm. … By late spring of the first year of law school, 32% of students were depressed. The percentage increased again by late spring of the third year when 40 percent of the class reported significantly elevated depression levels. Two years after law school, 17 percent of the same subjects were still reporting they were depressed.
Eighteen percent of the lawyers were problem drinkers. This percentage is almost twice the approximately 10 percent alcohol abuse and/or dependency prevalence rates estimated for adults in the United States.
I’ve often wondered about why so many celebrities wind up addicts. I guess if money isn’t an obstacle, and you have a big ego, as many celebrities and attorneys do, then you think you can handle it or that you deserve to feel good, so you hit the booze or drugs. I still think the person in question in the OP deserves approbation, but there’s something bigger out there, and if we don’t look into it and try to resolve it, then we’re just doing our citizens who choose to be attorneys a disservice.
Enjoy,
pravnik
November 5, 2009, 10:06pm
22
Mtgman:
Someone really should look into the rates of alcohol abuse at law schools. I’ve got an abnormally high ratio of attorneys as personal friends(many of which I knew before they were attorneys, so don’t look at me like that), and they all tell CRAZY alcohol-related stories. I’m not sure if there’s something about the profession, the pressures of being a young attorney, or the fact that many of them have to deal with the ugliness of being hired guns for every nasty thing we want to do to each other in a civil society, but the typical attorney seems to be way out on the end of the bell curve in regards to alcohol consumption. If there is a broad trend, that’s something to worry about.
Enjoy,
Lawyers appear to be prodigious drinkers. The North Carolina study reported that almost 17% of lawyers admitted to drinking three to five alcoholic beverages every day. 29 One researcher conservatively estimated that 15% of lawyers are alcoholics. 30 The study of Washington lawyers found that 18% were “problem drinkers,” a percentage “almost twice the approximately 10 percent alcohol abuse and/or dependency prevalence rates estimated for adults in the United States.” 31 Moreover, the Washington study “revealed an astounding number of lawyers with a high likelihood of developing alcohol related problems.” 32
Little is known about the frequency with which lawyers use illegal drugs, but the little that is known is not encouraging. The Washington study found that 26% of lawyers had used cocaine at least once, a rate over twice that of the general population. 33 True, the Washington study found that only 1% of lawyers had “abused” cocaine, as compared to 3% of adults generally. 34 But that is hardly cause for celebration. According to the Washington study, one third of lawyers in Washington suffer from depression, problem drinking, or cocaine abuse. 35 There is no reason to believe that Washington is anomalous. 36
On Being a Happy, Healthy, and Ethical Member of an Unhappy, Unhealthy, and Unethical Profession
Mtgman
November 5, 2009, 10:26pm
23
Not only were we thinking along the same lines, apparently we were looking at the same study(conducted in Washington and Arizona).
Enjoy,
pravnik
November 5, 2009, 10:57pm
24
Sorry for that - I didn’t preview.
HA!
Believe me, there are a lot of lower bottoms than that. I’ve heard one guy tell of an office intervention by a SWAT team for drug trafficking, and ending up in Attica prison, later burning your ex-wife’s house down then stealing your lawyer’s car to head to Mexico with a suitcase full of conterfeit money and amphetamines (and ending up in Attica again), and even later awakening from a blackout at 30,000 feet in the cockpit of a military aircraft with two drunk hookers and a military pilot who is passed out cold, and you don’t know how to fly! (surprisingly, no jail time there but that’s a whole 'nuther story).
Of course, that was 3 separate drinking binges.
It says he’s a native of Texas.
I see.
MPB_in_Salt_Lake:
Ever known any attorneys that went to law school in New Orleans (Tulane)?
The few I have hung with (I have spent a “bit” of time in New Orleans, and have made a lot of friends there over the years) were capable of consuming staggering amounts of liquor nightly, and still being highly successful, hard driven achievers…
Wow. I’ve done some legal volunteer work in New Orleans, and the hangovers just from visiting the city have sometimes done a number on my productivity. How one would manage with actually going to school there - these people must be made of stern stuff indeed.
Qadgop_the_Mercotan:
HA!
Believe me, there are a lot of lower bottoms than that. I’ve heard one guy tell of an office intervention by a SWAT team for drug trafficking, and ending up in Attica prison, later burning your ex-wife’s house down then stealing your lawyer’s car to head to Mexico with a suitcase full of conterfeit money and amphetamines (and ending up in Attica again), and even later awakening from a blackout at 30,000 feet in the cockpit of a military aircraft with two drunk hookers and a military pilot who is passed out cold, and you don’t know how to fly! (surprisingly, no jail time there but that’s a whole 'nuther story).
Of course, that was 3 separate drinking binges.
some names, dates, cites if you have them please. sounds too good not to read about
I have to agree with that sentiment. How freaking drunk did he get? I’ve been totally wasted and never considered doing anything that is without a doubt illegal! He was supposed to be a lawyer? Yet he thinks a prank is arson? Screw him.
Yeah, there are some things that are never okay as pranks, drunk or not. Peeing on a cop car for example is really stupid and gross, but nowhere near this heinous. Setting fire to something just heads into the realm of dangerous. And setting fire to 9/11 stuff? WTF?
Hey, they don’t call it Alcoholics Anonymous for nothing.
Qadgop_the_Mercotan:
HA!
Believe me, there are a lot of lower bottoms than that. I’ve heard one guy tell of an office intervention by a SWAT team for drug trafficking, and ending up in Attica prison, later burning your ex-wife’s house down then stealing your lawyer’s car to head to Mexico with a suitcase full of conterfeit money and amphetamines (and ending up in Attica again), and even later awakening from a blackout at 30,000 feet in the cockpit of a military aircraft with two drunk hookers and a military pilot who is passed out cold, and you don’t know how to fly! (surprisingly, no jail time there but that’s a whole 'nuther story).
Of course, that was 3 separate drinking binges.
you mean it never made the newspapers?
The first two events did, but I don’t believe the third one did.
Freudian_Slit:
Yeah, there are some things that are never okay as pranks, drunk or not. Peeing on a cop car for example is really stupid and gross, but nowhere near this heinous. Setting fire to something just heads into the realm of dangerous. And setting fire to 9/11 stuff? WTF?
I got the impression from the article he didn’t know it was a 9/11 chapel, just that it was “something to arson”.
Okay, but still. Arsoning anything is insane. Who gets drunk enough to the point where they think putting people in danger is acceptable?
Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor:
Texans.
Well played, sir! Well played indeed!
Nava
November 6, 2009, 3:20pm
39
Mtgman:
I still think the person in question in the OP deserves approbation, but there’s something bigger out there, and if we don’t look into it and try to resolve it, then we’re just doing our citizens who choose to be attorneys a disservice.
Underline mine, I think you mean “opprobium.”
Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor:
Texans.
Oh yes, nothing but stupidity comes from Texas. :rolleyes:
