Dutch Dopers, I need some help! Also need the lowdown on several big cities.

Well if anyone knows anything about me you’ll notice that I’ve posted a series of threads about a lot of things, but mainly I am trying to get a better grip on where I want to go after I graduate. Hopefully I can get a job in any of the places I am considering, but that’s not the point at the moment.

Okay, I have been thinking about this for a while now. I visited some friends of mine who live in Holland (rotterdam) and I was very impressed with Dutch culture. And being an American I am kind of opposed to any kind of generalization about any group of people. But can’t we be serious and say that there are some? Just like my thread about the European dream, I think that there are differences that we have to appreciate.

On a side note, I have to admit that after having learned German for a while, it makes hearing Dutch sound like a really goofy version of German! I know about the language similarities, sure, but its still funny to me. Anyway, its cool that I can read a lot (on streets, websites, etc… NOT Books!) of Dutch because of German, but it hurts my head to do it. But I suppose its an advantage as much as learning Spanish is to learning Italian.

Recently I got to thinking how great it would be to live in the Netherlands after I graduate. I have some Dutch friends, and they are, on the whole, more gregarious and fun-loving people than those that I am used to being around. I went to visit them and I was really surprised at how much fun it was and how people really enjoyed themselves to an extent that I have never seen before in Germany.

Then I went to Amsterdam. I would really love to live in this city, I think. But first I would like to clarify my position on drugs. I have been known to smoke ocassionally, but there would be no reason for me to move to Amsterdam to smoke weed, because honestly you can get it anywhere. Sure its more convienient, but honestly its not really my idea of a good time with friends. I wasn’t really surprised to see that Dutch people don’t do drugs with reckless abandon. What I really thought was cool is that it seems to be an interesting mixture of a German-like efficiency and appreciation of anything that is practical, but also the ability to not feel so guilty for having a little fun. When I went out with my friends we didn’t smoke and none of their friends did, which was really interesting, I thought.

Anyway, I was really impressed with Dutch culture because to me it doesn’t seem to be about all of the negative stereotypes that people have. Eg, the Netherlands are all about smoking weed and illegal drugs, prostitution, etc. But to me the appealing thing about Dutch culture is the openness to these things. I think its called “gezellig”. I am not sure, but I think it has something to do with the German word “Gesellschaft” except that it looks like an adjective.

Explain “gezellig” to me.

I am just trying to decide if I’d have fun in the Netherlands for a while. I am looking for a place to settle down for a few years and have a non-substantial job where I can enjoy being young. I really don’t feel like I am missing out by not doing any hardcore drugs, so that won’t really matter to me.

My question goes out particuarly to you Amsterdammers. What kind of people move to Amsterdam from other countries, and what kind of people are the native Dutch there like, and what are the people who move to Amsterdam from other parts in Holland like. Again I hate to give the impression that I want a narrow definition here, but maybe an answer like this would help me, “Well, there are obviously a lot of people who come from the drugs but there are others that come for X, and others that come for Y, and etc.”
Is there a difference between the dutch and immigrant/expatriate community? Do the two mingle much or are they simply considered “tourists that won’t leave.” Would it be a better idea to go to another dutch city like Rotterdam? People say that International cities like New York, London, and even Amsterdam aren’t really representative of their respective contries because they are so International. Is this true for Amsterdam? Do the Dutch in Amsterdam mingle with the foreigners much or is it simply seperated?

Basically I just want the Dutch people on this board to reinforce/debunk my suspicions and give me all the info that the SDMB is known for.

The only problem that I have with Amsterdam is that people think of it as a really sinful city, and so many people go only for the drugs. I know that not everyone is like that, but I do come from a small town and I am sure to get a lot of eye-brow raising, etc.

Some other cities that I have considered living in:

New York: The city itself, I love, and I have visited it many times, but I think I would have a problem with the whole agressive attitude with reguards to work, and play. I can’t say that I know this from experience, but I do know America pretty well. And being that it is in America, I would probably be expected to work longer hours and probably have much less free time.

Paris: I don’t know French, so its pretty low on the list, it seems like a cool place though.

Somewhere in Spain, particularly Madrid: I would be happy to live in Madrid, I think, but I am not so sure if I’d find employment as it is a little harder in Spain, I believe.

Berlin: I have yet to go there, but I hear good things, and I suppose it would be better than the rest of Germany. I think Germany is okay, but people are a little too closed to meeting new people, it seems. It seems that most Germans I have met have their group of friends and aren’t really interested in expanding it so often. But I figure that it is probably easier to make new friends and find a new group, as many people move to Berlin to start new lives, so they have a different situation, unlike many Germans who never move very far from home.

London: I have only been there briefly, but it is English-speaking so that would be the easiest, I suppose, but I am not so sure how much I would like living in England. I don’t know much, honestly.

Maybe somewhere in Australia?: I would love to go for the weather, and I hear that Australians are a laid-back bunch, (which I am too), but I have never been, nor know much at all about the place. I doubt I’d live there for long, but I’d love to spend a year or less there. I want to learn to surf sometime in my life!

Tokyo: Okay this isn’t very likely to happen for a permenant residence, but I’d like to teach english in Japan for a year if it were possible.

South America: Maybe Argentina or Chile, but it is doubtful.

Basically, I am looking for a fun place to live after I graduate. I considered the Netherlands because it has many things that are important to me: Liberal community, European (whatever it means), More egalitarian in economic and social life, and a place where you won’t get judged so often as in America.

However, I will probably change my priorities again after I go to Spain for a visit later this summer. :rolleyes: I’ll probably want to live near the ocean then, because I am a sucker for the ocean. Something about it is really enchanting to me.

I promise to follow this thread closely to help explain what I’d like to know about.
Me? I have a huge desire to experience as many cultures as I can, but also as deeply as possible. I also want to have fun while I still can in my youth as I intend to remain without any serious responsibilities that would hold me back as long as I possibly can. I can’t really say what my skills would be. I’ll have a BA in International Relations and possibly Economics, and I’ll have studied in Spain and Europe for a total of 3 semesters or 21 months. My Spanish and German skills are pretty good, at least better than almost all Americans I have met. I don’t know how hard/easy it is to get a job in any of these places, but I’ll have to see about that as well.

So what do you think about Amsterdam?

I’m a Dutch person not from Amsterdam and not currently living in Holland either, so I’m not the best possible person to answer your questions, but I’ll give it a go and then any Amsterdammer can come along and give you the details.

Okay, first off, well-spotted about “gezellig”. I had an American friend visiting and she also noticed that coming up again and again. The Dutch tend to think it is a typically Dutch word and therefore hard to translate. Narrowly it translates as “cosy”, and for instance an interior could be this if it had a wood fire, warm colours, a bit of clutter, in short, the opposite of minimalist white and chrome haven which some people (including me) deem to be “ongezellig”(the opposite). But in Dutch this word can apply to all sorts of things. Typical situations which are “gezellig”, as you may have guessed from your German etymology, involve company. Going to a pub with friends and having a chat is a very good example. In the end it becomes almost a word of general praise and fun. If someone is being argumentative his friends might ask them not to be “ongezellig”. Also look out for the word “lekker”, literally “tasty” as in food, but it’s another one that can be applied to anything from people’s good looks to activities like dancing, cooking, anything at all really.

Second, you gain brownie (no pun intented) points for noticing that Holland is not an utterly and completely drug addled nation. I’m certainly not against it, but it is definetely a myth that we smoke all day every day just because it is allowed. And, to move into another question, it is even less so in the smaller towns than in Amsterdam. Of course the same laws apply, but you find that the Coffeeshops and naked girls tend to be more tucked away in the usual seedy alleyways, rather than slap bang in the middle of the town centre. I’m going to leave the question of foreigners in Amsterdam to a native or someone who lives there (I never have), but I’d say that in the smaller towns you’d be more of a novelty so everyone will want to meet you. Of course, the more boring the small town, the more this applies, so that might just not be worth your while.

One word of warning about Amsterdam, though. I think it’s a great town and you obviously have noticed too, but so has the rest of Holland and a good many people from elsewhere. Accomodation can be very hard to come by. Unless you are very lucky or very rich you can expect to start out a good way out of the city centre and getting that bedsit near the canal might take you years if it ever happens.

You have painted a very flattering picture of Dutch attitude in your post. Although we’re still a tolerant people, I’m sad to detect the beginning of a backlash, mainly directed against foreigners (as in asylum seekers, Americans wouldn’t be affected by bad feelings in this context) and a general swing to the right. But perhaps by American standards it wouldn’t amount to much (no offense meant here.) :slight_smile: and besides, I’m only a ex=pat reading the papers and chatting to friends and family from home.

In the end you can only find out what it’s like living somewhere by going. You seem a very observant and open-minded indivual so I’m sure you’d fit in fine in Holland if that’s where you decide to go. Good luck, and if you need any more questions answered, just ask.

Yeah, I noticed the somewhat strong tendency to be a little xenophobic from some people there. When I talked to a few of my friends they mentioned it as a problem. As an American I can’t really understand that because our country is based on inmigration, but like most other nation-states in Europe I think the Netherlands was made to protect its own people. The question I guess is what is the responsibility of a group of people to help others and take others in? I don’t really know, but in some ways Europe has the hard deciscion to make that has already been made for Americans. You can’t really deny inmigration to a country that was made for inmigrants.

I knew that Amsterdam must be expensive, but I’ll have to see what kind of job opportunities I could have there. I think it would be okay to start a sort of professional-like job in Amsterdam or in Holland in general, because not only is there the European attitude of working less, but also the enjoyment of free time as well.

And Dutch seems a lot like a weird version of German sometimes, especially when you learn the way to prounounce the words! I laugh sometimes about it but only in an endearing way,

I’m Dutch, and have lived in Dieren (near Arnhem) and Utrecht, and am now living in Maastricht. I’ll second **PookahMacPhellimey ** on two vital points:

1 The sinfullness of Holland.
I actually think Dutch people smoke less pot and have less sex on their minds then, f.i. Americans do. Both pot and sex are treated so practically and matter-of-factly here, that it takes most of the fun out that’s connected with the taboo. As a direct result, people are just less feverishly interested in them. We think our state of mind is more healthy, more “clean” then the prudish American one, actually. It is a fact, for instance, that the Dutch have the lowest teenage pregnacy rate in the western world. We are also highly atheistical, and I suppose it can’t be helped that some US fundies will equal atheism to lack of morals (feh!).

  1. The difficulty of getting a nice place to live.
    In most student towns (Amsterdam, Leiden, Utrecht, Maastricht) rooms or apartments are notoriously hard to come by. Expect an overpriced, crappy place in a deprassing place a long, long way out of the centre if you start out without friends or contacts. You’d be better of squatting, instead, or to house-sit for somebody who’s going abroad and doesn’t want to give up their apartment.
    Rotterdam is the exception, as a place to live can be easier found there.
    But I’d definately try other places small yet beautifully old places, like Deventer, Zutphen, Leeuwarden, Groningen, Middelburg. Finding room and job should be easier there. And while the offered range of cultural events would be less plentiful then in Amsterdam, remind yourself that there is only so much experimental theatershows and world-music-festivals one wants to go see in a week.

As for Amsterdam: it the cultural capital of the Netherlands. All Dutch who are too colourfull, too gay, too criminal or to interested in music/dance/arts goes to Amsterdam to be with his or her peers. Also, Amsterdam has the largest proportion of immigrants, tourists and US-foreigners who basically want the same as you do. But bear in mind that you can speak English pretty much everywhere in Holland and everybody with a bit of higher education will understand you.

Not to say anything against the Dutch here, but if you want to experience what “gezellig” means… Go to Belgium. If you want Flanders because of the language: Antwerpen or Gent for example.
I think it is also a lot easier to find a house/flat/room in Belgium then it is in the Netherlands.
As for the language: There are a few differences between Flemish and Dutch, not only in wording, sentence structure and expressions but most of all in pronounciation. You shall find Flemish pronounciation probably “softer” sounding.
There will be no problem for you to speak English, German, French (and when you are in Antwerp, you can add a few languages that most of the time don’t give much problems among the higher educated people

sorry, wrong button…

Your turn Dutch :slight_smile:
Salaam. A

Hi, I’m a German who has been transplanted to the Netherlands, so I guess I can give you some advice. You are right about the language being easier to learn if you speak German. In fact some Germans would just consider Dutch to be a dialect of Nieder-Deutsch, but don’t tell any Dutch that :D. However, it can be hard to actually learn Dutch, because most people speak English so well, that they automatically switch to English if they notice you aren’t a native. You may have to force people to speak Dutch with you, just so you can practice.

You are right about the Dutch being more gregarious and fun-loving than the Germans in general. However, this applies mostly to the younger generations and people leaving in or near a bigger city. If you ever have the chance to visit the Dutch countryside you might see this become less obvious. In general, the Dutch do have a more laissez-faire attitude when it comes to most things in life. I and my wife (who is Brazilian) feel more comfortable here than when we lived in Germany. My wife also says that there is less “hidden” racism here than in Germany. She is not treated differently than other people when she is out shopping or whatever. She felt that when out shopping in Germany she was always being observed a little more closely than should have been necessary for a “white” German customer. I always thought this may have to do with the Dutch period of colonialism. The Germans generally seem to be more xenophobic, probably because they never had much contact with other races and nationalities before the 19th century.

However, the Dutch do have their little quirks and peculiarities (koffie en één, maar ook echt alleen één koekje, bijvoorbeeld). Those last parentheses refer to the fact that if you are offered coffie and cookies in the Netherlands, you are offered a tin full of cookies, but after taking one, and only one cookie, the tin will be closed and removed from your sight :D. For more information on these little quirks and peculiarities, I can only recommend checking out The Undutchables, and getting the book of the same name.

As to Amsterdam, you will find it a complete hodgepodge of nationalities and cultures. There are neighborhoods that are predominantly Turks and Morrocan, others that are predominantly Surinamese and Antillian, others that are predominantly Dutch. The city has a lot of expatriates from all over the world living there. It has a very cosmopolitan feel, but is actually a very small “big city” and easy to get around in. However, accommodations and housing in Amsterdam itself are very expensive, and hard to get. In Germany, it is a lot easier to rent a house or apartment. You basically look through the ads in the papers, and get in touch with estate agents. In the Netherlands, you are put on a waiting list (even when looking for a house or apartment in the private sector). There are basically no ads in the papers, so you can’t just go house hunting. Expect to have to wait a few weeks or months at least before finding a place to live on your own.

Also, if you’re used to Germany, don’t be surprised if after a while you begin to think that Amsterdam and the rest of the Netherlands is a little “dirtier” and “untidier” than Germany. Especially the big cities (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Utrecht, Den Haag), can seem like real dumps sometimes.

Another great thing about the Netherlands is that it is so small, that everything is close by. Public transportation is good and not too expensive. There are a lot of nice things to see and do. For a list of some of the most popular tourist spots (other than Amsterdam), check out the Dutch tourism board’s site.

As to a personal choice for where to live, I would prefer living in Utrecht, Leiden, Haarlem, or any of the small towns near those cities. I would not want to live in Amsterdam (too crowded, too expensive), Rotterdam (too crowded, too dangerous), or Den Haag (much too expensive, too stuffy). I live in a small town (30,000 residents) near Utrecht, and I can be in Rotterdam, Amsterdam, Den Haag, Arnhem, at the beach, basically anywhere in Holland (except maybe Friesland) in an hour. Just don’t take the car during rush hour, because Holland then becomes one big parking lot :D.

Actually I won’t disagree. Belgium is cool by me. Bruges is the most beautiful town I have ever seen but Gent seemed more lively and still pretty charming.

Now that I’ve been somehow reminded of it I will also strike a blow for my own county and say that Maastricht is really beautiful. Not the poster, the town in the south of Holland. The poster may be beautiful also but I have no way of telling. :slight_smile: The good thing about that town is that you can go to Belgium quite easily and there are some interesting German towns (f.i. Cologne, Aachen) which are, by American standards, just a stone’s throw away. Actually, being able to get to different countries easily is a big advantage I never realised we had until I exiled myself to the edge of Europe.

Ah…But Maastricht is looked at as “half Belgian” by many Belgians.

Yes, Brugge is very beautiful. (You should see it in the winter covered with snow).
Gent is one of those lively cities, partly because it is a university town. (My Belgian niece studies there).
I would say however that Antwerp is much more lively and international-minded because of its long history as important harbor-city. And of course my heart and mind is completely addicted to Antwerp because that is where my late mother came from. That alone makes it the best city of the world :slight_smile:

Salaam. A

Salaam. A


That’s a funny quote. But I can imagine that its true. I am not sure if I’ll be so comfortable in something that extrememe. Surely there are normal Dutch folks that aren’t particularly too “anything” that they have to live there but like to just becuase they like the atmosphere?

And about the English thing, I think its true. I saw the Boom Chicago guide, (saw the show too, which was good) and it says that you can speak English guilt free, which I think is the best description. Its strange but it feels less foreign than even England to me becase their English is easier to understand :eek: But I’d rather learn Dutch as well. I figure it would be a good way to forget my German :stuck_out_tongue:

No but I think I could handle learning Dutch and retaining German at the same time. Although is it correct to say that Dutch is a little simpler in terms of grammar than German? It doesn’t seem to have as many declination rules as German does although I know it has 3 articles. It seems that I remember seeing a chart where languages were ranked in dificulty to learn. Chinese and Asian languages were 5, Russian and slavic were 4, German and others were 3, Some romance languages were 2, and I think Dutch and Spanish were number 1. I can’t be sure of that though. Thanks for the input and keep it coming.

I can’t say if German is more difficult to learn then Dutch. I would rather think the reverse to be true but it is difficult for me to make that distinction (something is only difficult as long as you don’t know it).
I would say though that your German shall help you a lot … Just like knowing Dutch helps a lot in learning German, which I know out of own experience.

About your list on difficult languages… You should try for example the Semitic and Altaic languages :slight_smile:

Salaam. A

I’d have to agree with :smiley: here. Even though the fact that I’m a native speaker of Dutch might colour my perception of it, it still seems easier to me than German. The reason is as you say, we only have “de”, “het” and “een”, rather than all this utterly confusing des, des, dem, den etc. business. Of course, knowing German will help and I’d say that even though you’ll get by in English no problem, the locals will certainly appreciate the effort.

Also, don’t worry about Amsterdam being too extreme. Sure, there is certain amount of lunatics, probably over the odds for a city of its size, but there are plenty of “normal” people going about their business like anywhere else. You don’t have to be a nutter to live there… :smiley:

Wrong button pressing is catching. I was agreeing with Merkwurdigliebe, of course.

Yes, the Dutch grammar is easier than the German grammar. There are only two articles: “de” and “het”, and for instance the plural declinations are all the same, as opposed to German. Take for examle the verb “zingen” (to sing):

ich singe
du singst
er/sie/es singt
wir singen
ihr singt
sie singen

ik zing
jij zingt
hij/zij/het zingt
wij zingen
jullie zingen
zij zingen

Most regular verbs in Dutch use the “root” for the first person singular, then add a -t for the second and third person singular, and add -en for the plural forms. Of course there are some irregular verbs and exceptions to the rules, but in general dutch grammar is easier than German grammar. The spelling is also easy and follows standardized rules (with a few weird exceptions here and there). One advantage when you speak German is that the sentence structure seems to correspond very well in most cases. You can take most Dutch sentences and translate them word for word without any transpositions, and they will most likely make sense in German. Here is an example:

Dutch: “Wees er altijd van bewust dat Amsterdammers veel te tolerant zijn om de verkeersregels te gehoorzamen. En dat is nog zeer zwak uitgedrukt!”

German: “Sei immer davon bewust, dass Amsterdammer viel zu tolerant sind um die Verkehrsregeln zu gehorchen. Und das ist noch sehr schwach ausgedrückt!”

That was a word for word translation. the only word missing is the “er” which has no translation into German, and seems to be some kind of mental stutter the Dutch language has developed :D. Entire doctorates have been written on the uses and meaning of the Dutch “er”, “maar dat doet er niets aan toe”.

In English it just won’t work:
“Be always thereof conscious, that Amsterdammers much too tolerant are to the rules of the road to obey. And that is still very weakly expressed.” Sounds like Yoda :D.

Just to change the subject a little, I just saw out the office window, that the police here in Rotterdam (where I work), now get to ride these cool little scooters.

Hehe, on a lighter note:

I am not a tall guy. I am about 5’8. Sure, its not tooooo short, but I would consider it on the lower side of average. However in Holland I rarely saw someone my height that was dutch. What are you guys eating over there? I have gotten through life being almost oblivious about it, but sadly it seems that in Holland I think of it a little more often. I don’t really let it bother me, but I know that some girls like bigger guys… Anyhow, that’s a little strange to me.

LOL I thought you were gonna post a link to a segway! I am glad that it isn’t true! Yeah, German sounds a lot like Yoda-speak to me, but that’s just because I’m an American, I suppose. As I said, I could read most Dutch in the streets and on signs with a little work. And the lack of declinations would be GREAT! too bad I’ve learned most of them (although it wasnt’ easy…) I am sure it probably isn’t easy for Dutch people either. What about the articles for words. Do they normally correspond to the German ones? For instance in German you say “das Brödchen.” Is it “het broodje” in Dutch?

The rule is that any word ending in -je is “het”. So it’s “het meisje” (but “de meid”), “het mannetje” (but “de man”), etc. Most of the time (but not all of the time) the words that have the same Germanic root and are neuter in German are also neuter (“het”) in Dutch.

I?m only chiming in to say that the other posters have pretty much covered everything. I live in Amsterdam and really like it, but I can understand that other people want a more quiet city.

Getting a good room is very hard, but if you?re not picky it is fairly easy to get some sort of accomodation out of the center. Amsterdammers act as if everything outside the Grachtengordel doesn?t exist, but in fact if you?re willing to cycle 30 minutes you can have a relatively cheap room in the outer quarters of the city. The outskirts are boring and in some cases warrant a little carefulness at night, but it is never really unsafe. Violent crimes are rare.

You should be aware that you have seen mostly the touristy side of the city. Living there is rather different and much more mundane. The attraction of the city is that you can quickly move from a quiet neighbourhood where you live yourself to a cosmopolitan nightlife a few blocks away. Furthermore, the people are (to my mind) in general a bit more leisurely about odd occurences and strange people, merely because you see those things fairly often.

I would advice you not to start with mentioning drugs: it makes me inwardly roll my eyes. Generally speaking it is not an issue at all. Everyone know you can get pot in coffee shops, and most people consider it a juvenile experience left for high school kids, older hippies, and tourist. Adults don?t do pot. (however, apparently quite a few do ecstacy or coke at parties)

You should not make the mistake of thinking everything is allowed, though. The Dutch may be laid-back about lots of things (we aren?t much bothered about ?immorality? as appears to happen in the U.S.), but there are rules that only become apparent when you live here. Important is that you should be much more considerate than apparently is necessary in the U.S. This means that you are not allowed to exercise your rights to the fullest (as appears to be a prevalent attitude among U.S. people, at least among a fair share of the posters on SDMB). Instead you should try to avoid being a nuisance to others.

Furthermore you will be asked to act ?social? (i.e. ?gezellig?), open up, go with the crowd. You are allowed to be yourself, indeed are encouraged to, but people don?t like it if you close yourself off. At least, this is what I?ve heard strikes foreign inhabitants often.

I do not know any specific ?foreign? community to speak off, but that is natural since I?ll only meet people who have socialized with the Dutch. I believe there are at least groups that naturally hang somewhat together, in particular around certain jobs (music, dance, or Boom Chicago). I fairly regularly meet Americans who apparently have ended up here for one reason or the other, so apparently it can be done.

Finally, about speaking Dutch: the language is a lot like the people, in comparison to German. We do have lots of rules but they are not very clear or strict. There are genders, which unfortunately do not match up with German gender (reminiscenses of horrid root-learning of German nouns pop up), but the Dutch have become sloppy in their usage, so lots of times male and female are allowed (the Flemish are much better at this). A lot of idiom and sentence construction is very heard to do exactly right, since Dutch people only know how it should sound, but can?t tell you the rules. Ask about how to use ?er? (Er was eens, wie gaat er mee, wat is er gebeurd, er is er een jarig?).

Good luck, and let us know what you?re going to do.

Hey, Strangelove :slight_smile:

Don’t let anyone fool you. I’m born, bred and living in A’dam and it’s the best city in the world. *:: ducking in case things will get thrown at me:: *

Most of the important things have been said already. Nope, we’re not as tolerant as we used to be. Also: Our famous social securities aren’t as great as they used to be. Blame it on our “Christian” government. And the people who voted for them.

If you want to know some Dutch idiosyncrasies, take the “How Dutch are you” test. Take note that it’s made by someone who doesn’t like the Dutch at all. heheheh
Maybe a Belgian. :D. By the way: Belgium is nice. You can visit it for a weekend. Their food and drink are much better than ours.
But we have other qualities. And I don’t mean ‘sex and drugs and rock & roll’ [though we have that too]
Remember: The Netherlands brought us; van Gogh, Rembrandt, Mondriaan, Willink, Jan Steen, Escher, Vermeer [girl with the pearl earring], Frans Hals and Appel [amongst others]

If you decide on Amsterdam, looking for a house won’t be easy. This might help.

For a preview of A’dam: http://www.channels.nl/

I hope you’ll have a ‘gezellige’ time. Just holler if you need more. :slight_smile:


the quiz was funny.
AND you must be the FIRST person to notice the origin of my name. It isn’t really a German name, but that’s what Dr. Strangelove’s name was said to be in the movie. Supposedly he changed it when he inmigrated. Its a funny movie.
I don’t really know what to do about Holland though. I think I’d like it there, but could I get a job with what I know and my language experience? I know Spanish and German, and my degree… well I don’t really know.