Well if anyone knows anything about me you’ll notice that I’ve posted a series of threads about a lot of things, but mainly I am trying to get a better grip on where I want to go after I graduate. Hopefully I can get a job in any of the places I am considering, but that’s not the point at the moment.
Okay, I have been thinking about this for a while now. I visited some friends of mine who live in Holland (rotterdam) and I was very impressed with Dutch culture. And being an American I am kind of opposed to any kind of generalization about any group of people. But can’t we be serious and say that there are some? Just like my thread about the European dream, I think that there are differences that we have to appreciate.
On a side note, I have to admit that after having learned German for a while, it makes hearing Dutch sound like a really goofy version of German! I know about the language similarities, sure, but its still funny to me. Anyway, its cool that I can read a lot (on streets, websites, etc… NOT Books!) of Dutch because of German, but it hurts my head to do it. But I suppose its an advantage as much as learning Spanish is to learning Italian.
Recently I got to thinking how great it would be to live in the Netherlands after I graduate. I have some Dutch friends, and they are, on the whole, more gregarious and fun-loving people than those that I am used to being around. I went to visit them and I was really surprised at how much fun it was and how people really enjoyed themselves to an extent that I have never seen before in Germany.
Then I went to Amsterdam. I would really love to live in this city, I think. But first I would like to clarify my position on drugs. I have been known to smoke ocassionally, but there would be no reason for me to move to Amsterdam to smoke weed, because honestly you can get it anywhere. Sure its more convienient, but honestly its not really my idea of a good time with friends. I wasn’t really surprised to see that Dutch people don’t do drugs with reckless abandon. What I really thought was cool is that it seems to be an interesting mixture of a German-like efficiency and appreciation of anything that is practical, but also the ability to not feel so guilty for having a little fun. When I went out with my friends we didn’t smoke and none of their friends did, which was really interesting, I thought.
Anyway, I was really impressed with Dutch culture because to me it doesn’t seem to be about all of the negative stereotypes that people have. Eg, the Netherlands are all about smoking weed and illegal drugs, prostitution, etc. But to me the appealing thing about Dutch culture is the openness to these things. I think its called “gezellig”. I am not sure, but I think it has something to do with the German word “Gesellschaft” except that it looks like an adjective.
Explain “gezellig” to me.
I am just trying to decide if I’d have fun in the Netherlands for a while. I am looking for a place to settle down for a few years and have a non-substantial job where I can enjoy being young. I really don’t feel like I am missing out by not doing any hardcore drugs, so that won’t really matter to me.
My question goes out particuarly to you Amsterdammers. What kind of people move to Amsterdam from other countries, and what kind of people are the native Dutch there like, and what are the people who move to Amsterdam from other parts in Holland like. Again I hate to give the impression that I want a narrow definition here, but maybe an answer like this would help me, “Well, there are obviously a lot of people who come from the drugs but there are others that come for X, and others that come for Y, and etc.”
Is there a difference between the dutch and immigrant/expatriate community? Do the two mingle much or are they simply considered “tourists that won’t leave.” Would it be a better idea to go to another dutch city like Rotterdam? People say that International cities like New York, London, and even Amsterdam aren’t really representative of their respective contries because they are so International. Is this true for Amsterdam? Do the Dutch in Amsterdam mingle with the foreigners much or is it simply seperated?
Basically I just want the Dutch people on this board to reinforce/debunk my suspicions and give me all the info that the SDMB is known for.
The only problem that I have with Amsterdam is that people think of it as a really sinful city, and so many people go only for the drugs. I know that not everyone is like that, but I do come from a small town and I am sure to get a lot of eye-brow raising, etc.
Some other cities that I have considered living in:
New York: The city itself, I love, and I have visited it many times, but I think I would have a problem with the whole agressive attitude with reguards to work, and play. I can’t say that I know this from experience, but I do know America pretty well. And being that it is in America, I would probably be expected to work longer hours and probably have much less free time.
Paris: I don’t know French, so its pretty low on the list, it seems like a cool place though.
Somewhere in Spain, particularly Madrid: I would be happy to live in Madrid, I think, but I am not so sure if I’d find employment as it is a little harder in Spain, I believe.
Berlin: I have yet to go there, but I hear good things, and I suppose it would be better than the rest of Germany. I think Germany is okay, but people are a little too closed to meeting new people, it seems. It seems that most Germans I have met have their group of friends and aren’t really interested in expanding it so often. But I figure that it is probably easier to make new friends and find a new group, as many people move to Berlin to start new lives, so they have a different situation, unlike many Germans who never move very far from home.
London: I have only been there briefly, but it is English-speaking so that would be the easiest, I suppose, but I am not so sure how much I would like living in England. I don’t know much, honestly.
Maybe somewhere in Australia?: I would love to go for the weather, and I hear that Australians are a laid-back bunch, (which I am too), but I have never been, nor know much at all about the place. I doubt I’d live there for long, but I’d love to spend a year or less there. I want to learn to surf sometime in my life!
Tokyo: Okay this isn’t very likely to happen for a permenant residence, but I’d like to teach english in Japan for a year if it were possible.
South America: Maybe Argentina or Chile, but it is doubtful.
Basically, I am looking for a fun place to live after I graduate. I considered the Netherlands because it has many things that are important to me: Liberal community, European (whatever it means), More egalitarian in economic and social life, and a place where you won’t get judged so often as in America.
However, I will probably change my priorities again after I go to Spain for a visit later this summer. :rolleyes: I’ll probably want to live near the ocean then, because I am a sucker for the ocean. Something about it is really enchanting to me.
I promise to follow this thread closely to help explain what I’d like to know about.
Me? I have a huge desire to experience as many cultures as I can, but also as deeply as possible. I also want to have fun while I still can in my youth as I intend to remain without any serious responsibilities that would hold me back as long as I possibly can. I can’t really say what my skills would be. I’ll have a BA in International Relations and possibly Economics, and I’ll have studied in Spain and Europe for a total of 3 semesters or 21 months. My Spanish and German skills are pretty good, at least better than almost all Americans I have met. I don’t know how hard/easy it is to get a job in any of these places, but I’ll have to see about that as well.
So what do you think about Amsterdam?