oops. I didn’t realize I was being called a pedophile, just a scumbag.
Sorry no cite. Just something I noticed when I used to lurk (for the car wreck effect) at the childlove boards.
Alex, there’s nothing wrong with pornography and masturbation.
As long as its in a healthy manner. I find sex to be beatiful. I really think if we removed the forbidden aspect of it, people would begin to apprecaite it in more of a healthy manner.
Um yes . Thing is…most kids are still very immature when it comes to social interactions. They need to learn that sex isn’t a game or something that you give to someone b/c you want to please them. It should be an outgrowth of a healthy relationship.
Virtually ALL pedo relationships are the pedophille being the dominant one. They have a very twisted view of human relationships.
Oh, and the treatment isn’t nessarily “oh peophilla is evil, so we’ll train you to have guilt trips over it.” Rather it should be analyzing and probing the reasons and emotions of WHY they feel that way. Like sex abuse victims often feel like they have to “prove” to the world that they are the big mac daddy/mama of sex. Since a lot of molested kids were and are emotionally stunted, they also have to deal with that, and learn how to maybe grow beyond that, so they can have healthy satisfying equal relationships
I didn’t call anyone a pedophile, but this “hey, whose to say that sex is bad for kiddies? whose to say what age is too young? 12 is probably OK!” doesn’t exactly strike me as debate.
SkiDemon, you launch into a debate that is on several levels above, “kids+sex=ewww” (walter’s stance). I appreciate that. To address your points:
Virtually all adolescent-adult relationiships have the adult be the dominant one, but we don’t go crying our hearts out at the ageism. It may sometimes be unpleasant, but I don’t think that it harms children, though, (if the adults don’t do it just to be assholes… which some do).
But anyway, what in itself is wrong about one-side-dominant relationships? A highly recognized such relationship is between father and son. Sons who have strong fathers may get pissed off sometimes when they get punished, watched over, forced to do their homework. But it also somehow feels warm and fuzzy. Feminists bitch about being equal, but many women know that it is very comforting (on some weird instinctual level), to be with someone strong. (It’s something both men and women can feel).
Will being in such a relationship early on make someone want to emulate the dominant one later on. Sure. What’s the mechanism? Simple, you thought a person early on in your life was so cool and important, you want to be like him. It’s because the kids really do feel that the person dominating over them was desirable. You liked your father (or older brother), didn’t you? Children who had strong fathers who made them do chores and homework grow up wanting to be good, strong fathers as well.
In the context of romantic relationships, maybe striving to be dominant will piss off some of their later lovers. It will if they do it like posers, it won’t if they do it right. Think about yourself. There’s people in your life who try to be dominant, but don’t deserve it and you despise them. Yet there are also people who try to be dominant and deserve it and pull it off, and they send out warm, desirable, leadership feelings to all those around them.
Psychology as a science shows real ignorance when it thinks it must treat a desire to be dominant as a disease or some sort of deviation. Or when it thinks that anything that inspired such striving must have been sick and twisted. The fear of one-sided relationships (altruistic relationships) is just some feminist bullshit that doesn’t understand how human interactions actually work.
Anyway, all that being said, I don’t mean you to take the above father-son analogy too literally. Homosexual pedophilic relationships may psychologically hurt kids who are not prepared to consider themselves homosexual. They may be alright with it at first, but it might come back to haunt them. It’s the fault of society for being homophobic, but it still means that you can’t push a kid in that direction because it can fuck them up.
Perhaps I’ve spent too much breath, but I just wanted to point out another example where psychology really doesn’t know what it’s talking about. And the treatments that it gives to “abuse victims” is the disease itself (but not in a scientology sort of way lol!). They keep trying to make the patients feel bad, make them understand themselves to be deviants. But worse, imagine you stuck vibrators up your ass and wore panties all day long as a kid. Or imagine whatever it is you find most perverse. And then later on people got a video tape of all that and kept replaying it in front of you and kept trying to discuss with you “why you had those feelings” and “what made you do the sick practice of sticking vibrators in your ass.” And they break you and get you to believed that ass-vibrators and panties are really, truly perverse. And still they keep talking about it. That’s what fucks up these kids. The treatment is the disease.
and p.s… I’m not a pedophile. I’m almost a kid myself. I speak about this because I think I have more perspective than the fathers with their daughters. But, hell, what the fuck do kids know, right? Damn inferior bastards.
I take a small issue to this, if only because my own sense of ethics doesn’t attach any terribly excessive importance (in regards to relationship status) to sexual activity in an age of effective birth control and STD prevention. As long as your definition of “healthy relationship” includes close long-term friends and not just romance, we’re pretty close to the same page.
Good thing no one said that, then–all I saw was an advancement of a contrary position with some interesting reasoning attached. Y’know, a debate?
Okay, Alex, now you’re starting to creep me out and I am one of the first ones to support the revisiting of draconian age-based laws.
We need to cut down on the institutionalization of the acceptance of dominance in all relationships, except for when it endangers safety.
I won’t launch into a giant debate about sociology. However, you can’t expect, or even desire, all human relationships to be those of peers. I think when people think of “dominance” they are actually picturing broken dominance. For example, you hate your boss not because he’s a leader and gives you orders. But because he doesn’t carry the stripes, the shoulders, and the face of a leader. If you had a good boss, you wouldn’t think he was “dominating” you, but he would still be steering his employees effectively and even excercising more control and direction. This isn’t unhealthy. We reserve a LOT of positive emotions for people who are and should be superior to us. It’s there by instinct, by evolution. Your PCness is just an artifact of your culture. People from China or Japan would just think you’re an idiot if you tried to argue that there (but I guess you probably think they’re wrong).
You did not call me a pedophile? So the reason you are warning me to keep “the hell away from (your daughter)” is because you suspect I might sell her fraudulent mining stocks? Or that I might sell her poor quality aluminum siding? If not, what else could your statement imply in the context of a thread discussing pedophiles? : :rolleyes:
Secondly, I would like to know whom you are quoting in your most recent posting. Who exactly posted the words “whose to say what age is too young? 12 is probably OK”. I am pretty sure I never wrote anything like that. For starters, I would have known the difference between “whose” (which is incorrect in this context) and “who’s”, which is short for “who is” and which is what I would write if I wanted to write “who’s to say. . . . .”.
Walter, if you can calm down a bit, has it occurred to you that I am really asking the questions I asked because I want to debate what laws will be fairest and most effective in protecting children from sexual exploitation?
You think it is a simple matter, Walter? Then try this on. Would you be in favour of jail for anyone who sexually touches a 12-year-old girl? Yes?
Then what about if one day you find your daughter (I do not WANT your daughter and I do not care how old she is, but let’s say she is 12) and she is exploring her sex organs with another 12-old-girl, laughing and touching the way 90% of children do. What prison would you like your daughter and her friend to serve their sentence in?
Okay, Walter, so you do not want the law to apply to kids who touch other kids. What if we set the age of consent at 18? What if you find your daughter when she is 18 having sex with a guy who is 17 and 11 months? Do you want us to lock her up then? Or do you just lock up the guy and say it was his fault only because he “seduced” her?
All right, so all you are really against is some sick old bastard like Dutchie McFang, the guy we saw in those pics, having sex with kids. Guess what, Walter? I am against that too.
Some countries, like Canada, have an age of sexual consent that is only 14. But any sex between a person under 18 and a person in authority over them, like an employer or teacher. I belive there is also some provision for cases where the age spread between the child and the older person is only a year or two. For example, a kid of 14 and another of 13 years 11 months. But even that law is criticized. Strictly speaking, it is not illegal for 14 year old and a 40-year-old to have sex, although it is expected the paqrents of a 14-year-old will have some control over their dating practices.
Some legislators want to change the law in Canada and up the age. Also, in Canada, 14 is the age of consent for vaginal penetration, but 18 is the age for anal penetration (whether the participants are gay or straight does not matter). Some people wonder why this difference.
Now Walter, I have brought out a series of legal problems and legal possibilities. Do you think you can discuss this issue without implying that I want to have sex with your daughter? 
You see Walter, it is easy to
:smack: Sorry, I was a little disturbed and did not finish the above sentence correctly I meant to say “But any sex between a person under 18 and a person in authority over them, like an employer or teacher is illegal”.
It is not every day someone implies I am a pedophile. In fact, it is the first time in 58 years of living that anyone has. :mad:
I do indeed dislike people who are leaders and give order and dislike situations where this is seen as the correct way of doing things. Even in the limited situations where it is completely necessary, such as an auteur directing the outcome of his or her own artistic vision, still doesn’t feel %100 warmfuzzy to me.
Even in customer relationships, as either the customer or the provider, most of the time there is a feeling that one person is serving the other and I don’t really like that.
It may be unavoidable given the nature of most of humanity but that does not mean we should strive to impose social structures that make it easier for truly abusive situations to even occur which would not have if the power structures had been more balanced to begin with.
For instance in cases of sexual relations, if someone was forced physically or through a dominant relationship into sex that they did not want, if the hierarchy was not so firmly in place that person would feel a lot safer in denying the relationship to begin with and if not then informing others about the “Dominant” persons wrongdoing.
Um no…It’s not about being all PC and feminist bullshit. The majority of “romantic” ones, are about adults preying on kids with not very good social skills. They prey on them b/c there’s something that the adults really want from the realtionship (not just emotional) I mean I know of student -teacher relationships, and lots of adult adololescent platonic relationships, and not too many of those are “adult=dominant”
And “Please stay the hell away from my daughter.” does?
“Sex isn’t harmful to kids (at least kids old enough to want to do it). What are you, stupid?”
Yeah, how dare I call this guy out. Pfft.
And then I’m treated to a visal image of my 12-year-old daughter getting off with another girl. I guess I’m just not up the high-toned classy debate of all you geniuses. What an fascinating topic. Pfft.
We gotta remember that with the young age of puberty this day, most pedophiles wouldn’t be interested in most 12 year olds. These are people who think adults having sex with 7 year olds is okay. And spare me the “children are sexual creatures too” speech. I’ve been around too many pedophiles to know that it is not the children’s interests they care about. Alex_Dubinsky shows us that pedophilia is mostly about dominance. Pedophiles talk about their victims in terms of conquest rather than love or support. Since there is absolutely no biological/evolutionary/psychological evidence for his claims that seeking to be dominated is a natural part of human order, there is absolutely no reason why we should accept this party of pedophiles.
kimera, exactly! Most pedophilles are extremely self centered, just like most criminals.
Also, for the pedophilles who were molested as kids, and not treated, they have it stuck in their heads that they gotta “prove” themselves as sexual beings in order to heal.(what their experiance taught them, is that you need to prove yourself to be dominent in order to be really sexual. Unfortunatly many people who’ve been abused have the world’s worst social skills, so they can’t heal by finding a peer. they also generally can’t dominate a peer so…
Val, there’s nothing wrong with two young teens exploring or experimenting. but still a more common thing is twenty something guys taking advantage of teen girls.