I’m forty, not early thirties, but I’ve been a “professional dater” my entire adult life, so I think I can contribute to the discussion. LOL
I don’t view dating as a mapped route to marriage like many traditional people do. I view them as two mutually exclusive relationship forms. The tone of your OP is dating with the view of a permanent relationship, so I will discuss that.
I am intelligent with a post master’s education, and I can say that marriage material would have to be an intelligent man with a stable, well paying job. I’ve had older, married, and thus wiser girl friends who say, “Never marry for love alone.” I believe they are right. For a marriage to be healthy and long lasting, it needs way more than that. “Way more” means mutual interests, economic equality, and a mutual respect that is well deserved because each individual is a quality, achieving person. I’m used to living a very comfortable life style, and I want to continue to do so. I can’t be burdened with “dead weight” because, inevitably, the initial love will turn to unhappiness and then divorce.
Now, having said that, I have to also say that there are blue collar men who make good money because construction, plumbing, electrical needs, etc, are things people will pay good money for. But, here’s where the “traditional values” thing comes in. Often included in “traditional values” is an antiquated and, inevitably, sexist view of women. As soon as I sense that, it’s adios!
My $WORK isn’t “writing code”; I “build things”. This, IMHO, is a different sort of experience (and reward) than just moving pixels on a screen or bytes on a disk.
It’s infinitely satisfying to watch a mechanism perform a task – knowing that you designed it and the algorithms that control it. Or, watch a friend engrossed in playing with a (full size) slot machine (one-armed bandit) despite the fact that he’s not going home with any more – or less – money than he came with!
My current project tailors the house’s behavior to observations of the occupants’ lifestyles. Some capabilities are easy to “bind” to new users and demonstrate to them as soon as they walk to the front door. E.g., having them select some music and having it follow them around the house, being mute in places that they have just left and coming on in places they are entering. Ditto TV/films following them from the living room to the kitchen or the guest bedroom, etc. without their having to take any actions to turn off the set they are “leaving” and turn ON the set they are approaching.
And, watching them try to test the limits of the system’s abilities (which represents new data points for me in revising the system’s performance). E.g., standing equidistant between two TVs and wondering when – and which – will turn off/on as they shift their position… and, by how much!
If I was just writing code that ran on a PC, I would have no desire to present it to them as it’s far less “interesting”.
I spend a shitload of time writing – but, it is based around my designs. Some highly technical (intended for folks who will maintain them) and some deliberately informal (intended to explain complex technical behaviors to the folks who will use them).
My commute has been a score of feet for more than 30 years (one room to another). And, my sleep-wake schedule has been unconstrained for just as long (I slept from 2P to 10P, yesterday and will likely “nap”, RSN). I long ago “trained” clients and colleagues to correspond with me via email so I could process it at my convenience as opposed to having to answer a phone that rings at THEIR convenience!
For me, working is an intellectual challenge – what can I learn, here. And, each project that I selected was chosen to tax my abilities in a different way than prior efforts (I have no desire to repeat a past experience; the bulk of the learning has already been gleaned from the earlier effort). And, an social one as it lets me explore the needs of others and how best to address those.
[I recall having a deaf couple living nearby. I had been tasked with watching THEIR neighbor’s home while they were away. On one occasion, I noticed one of them gardening in their back yard. But, their back was to me so they couldn’t see me. And, I couldn’t call out to attract their attention. It was a delightful learning opportunity and left me frozen in place as my brain raced through possibilities…]
Yeah, when I was in my thirties a platonic woman friend of mine liked to date cops, military, and firemen but complained how they kept trying to control her. As gently as I could I suggested fishing in different waters,
With no intention of appearing to be critical, can I ask why? Was this intentional (e.g., I deliberately take on different engineering projects “for the variety”)? Or, just a consequence of the folks available to you? Or, a desire to avoid a commitment? Or…
Said another way, would you have prefered otherwise THEN? Or, NOW?
My life style is based on the experiences I had between the ages of 16 and 22, and it is a life style I was happy with then and am happy with now. Not wanting children makes not wanting marriage an easy decision.
I (we) never wanted kids but that didn’t contraindicate marriage. I see marriage as more of choosing a “life companion” than “repopulating the earth”.
So, to build on that question (assuming you are now > 22yo), do you miss COMMITTED companionship?
I have a friend who is dating a woman that none of his friends like (I have no strong opinion, either way). This to the point that they outright ask him NOT to bring her to functions to which he’s been invited.
This dismays him. despite him seeing the truth in their assessments.
My (hopefully neutral) comments have been along the line of “Getting old, ALONE, can suck”
Another set of friends (a couple) are continually fighting and approaching comments that are suggestive of welcoming the other’s eventual demise. To which I make similar comments – “And how long do you think YOU will survive (emotionally, physically, psychologically) in their eventual absence?”
I know that. I think back when, women didn’t want to have a child without its father around, and men wanted to make sure the child was theirs.
No one should have a child if they don’t want to.
Understandable. Though having a child without wanting to be part of its life (or, at least taking responsibility for bringing it into the world) is anathema to me.
The idea that one would be “with” someone that they didn’t impicitly trust (to be “faithful/committed” is similarly unusual for me.
If you’re just looking for a sexual encounter, then that should be relatively easy to address – ESPECIALLY if you aren’t looking for a long term relationship.
Marriage doesn’t guarantee both parties will remain committed OR available. Neither does having offspring.
It boils down to knowing the party that you are engaging with to a degree where you can evaluate their character, sincerity, etc.
I know a (married) couple that spent many tens of thousands of dollars trying to conceive. Eventually, settling for a surrogate mother (actually a RELATIVE!) to “incubate” their issue.
Then, the husband disengaged from the kids and wife. And, a few years later was fishing in other ponds.
Q: If you couldn’t conceive, why go to these lengths? Why not just split up and start over with someone who actually shares your goals AND COMMITMENT?
More importantly, no child should have PARENTS that don’t want it! The parents had a conscious CHOICE in creating the child; the child had no such say!
But he is NOT blind to her “perceived faults”! Hence his problem. They do a lot of things together, travel, etc. So, obviously, enjoy spending long periods of uninterrupted time together.
Yet, will be quick to point out TO ME how she failed to thank me for fixing her laptop, or the cookies that I homemade dropped off… I just shrug it off as its not that important to me (though it would impact my priorities if tasked with a similar activity vs. an alternative)
“Ahhh, gwasshopppa…”
Old comes along REALLY quickly! It will leave your head spinning as you try to figure out how you got there! And, as finding (and verifying) someone to invest time (possibly the rest of your life – in particular the part that isn’t filled with wild sex and fun adventures but, rather, more like medical problems and disabilities) takes a lot of time and effort (often with fitful stops and starts as you realize “Nope, not THAT one”.), it’s best not to put it off if you think it important.
We have a friend who had a long-term sexual relationship with a man. Many years partying and enjoying each other’s bodies.
When ALS struck, he disappeared. The time in her life when she MOST needed companionship (and, eventually, assistance LIVING). We wonder if she ever regretted this earlier decision (live for the moment) in view of how she eventually dies, alone.
[ALS is pure evil! The fact that anyone can live with it is amazing to me…]
I wish I had the bandwidth right now. I’m the grants manager at a midsized nonprofit currently writing three concurrent state grants. I’m almost done! Breaking for the day. This feels like one of the most stressful grant application projects I’ve ever had in my 12 years doing this work for money. Yet I’ve always wanted to work for the Division of Victim Services… Crazy.
When I think about retirement I think about part-time grant writing maybe, but one of effects of macro social work is you don’t get to look into the eyes of the people you’re serving. So maybe my volunteer efforts in retirement would be a little more concrete.
We feel that as new parents we were abandoned by my Father In Law so one of our priorities would be to help support our son if he has a family. But if he waits as long as his parents to have a kid, that would make us grandparents at about eighty years old.
There’s also a possibility he won’t be able to live independently, but we’re optimistic at the moment.
Not all permanent partnerships are marriage and I am more interested in those interested in more than hooking up.
Full disclosure. I am most interested as the parent of four adult children aged 22 to 38. One is unmarried male and in a committed cohabiting relationship. No interest in having kids. Eldest male 38 in relationship not cohabiting wants kids someday. Educated good income. Youngest female 22 will be going for post graduate education someday sees a serious relationship but for now has fun. In between a 28 yo male college educated liberal and a bit of a nerd, hikes, volunteers for animal rescue groups, and to the best of my knowledge has always found relationships to be too much drama and effort. Works a variety of jobs and travels. The op emerged from a discussion pertaining to him. My position is that “market forces” are such that if he was ever interested in partnering up he’d be in demand despite his lack of a high income. My wife is less sure. And thoughts of what awaits my baby girl …
I’m not stupid enough to ask them!!
Regarding cohabitation vs marriage.
Basically couples who are married are equally satisfied with their sex lives and more satisfied on every other measure. I think the explicit ritual of commitment helps.
It works with human psychology. Most people, if they already have something, if they’ve already made the commitment, are biased in favor of what they have. This has been demonstrated in experiments with purchases and gifts, so it makes sense to me that it would also apply to relationships.
People generally do what they want to do and, from the info in your post, it seems like that is exactly what they are doing. Given the statistics from the U.S. Census Bureau that I dug up, being single is almost as common a lifestyle as being married.
From nationalsinglesday.us, “Did you know that 46.4% of U.S. adults are single according to the U.S. Census Bureau? That’s 117.6 million unmarried Americans – nearly every other adult aged 18 and over. This includes those who are divorced or widowed as well as those who have never married. - (Sep 17, 2023)
I really think that you have no cause for concern as long as your children who are co-habitating understand that there are certain legal benefits they will NOT enjoy that being married would allow them to enjoy.
For example, when your son eventually retires, gets old, and croaks, his partner is eligible for ZERO social security widow benefits but, if they were married, she would get 100% of your son’s basic social security benefit amount.
To be clear though that statistic defines “single” as unmarried, which misses the huge rise in cohabitation partnerships without marriage. Those folk are not really “single” in my mind. Beyond moving in together I parked getting on the other’s health plan as their commitment ceremony in my son’s case.
Well I would like grandchildren someday! My daughter says she’ll be the first because brothers are “never going get busy!” No rush kiddo. Get through grad school first!
I do think that the shy son who eschews what he sees as the drama of relationships would long term be happier in a committed relationship but imagine someone finding him more than him finding someone else. But he is on some level correct: he’s still figuring out what he wants his career to be. Will likely get more education at some point, or possibly back into a career along the way. I think he’ll come around to thinking about partnering after he is more on that path. I maybe worry a little about him becoming lonely later in life but I recognize, seriously, that telling him that would be a mistake. He has to decide when he is ready.
Are you sure the shy son doesn’t want a relationship? My parents kind of thought I didn’t (my oldest brother’s marriage was kind of a disaster), and had a hard time accepting that I was actually trying unsuccessfully to find someone. Of course they were happy when I did, and I’ve ended up being the only one of four kids with a successful marriage.
He’s stated that much, in particular the bit about his opinion regarding the work involved that he just doesn’t want to invest right now. Beyond that we respect his privacy. Not everyone needs to be involved with someone even if I’d love to see it happen someday.
The idea that one would be “with” someone that they didn’t impicitly trust (to be “faithful/committed” is similarly unusual for me.
