Ok. But the Onion has no problem with ‘too soon’. They were on 9-11 right out of the gate.
Listen, I hear you, cmyk. I understand your points. I am not swayed by those points, though.
I don’t agree that events that get a lot of news attention should be treated differently than events that happen daily, but don’t hold the same sensational elements. But, I hope it may count for something that Dr. Drake’s points do resonate with me. If people on the dope are truly hurt by jokes in the shooting thread, then maybe those jokes don’t need to be made.
Your joke with your wife pulled a half chuckle from me. Not because I know you as well as your wife, but because I give dopers the benefit of the doubt that the jokes aren’t mean spirited unless they really come across as undeniably mean spirited. So, I do think the posters probably thought they ‘knew their audience’ and that their audience kind of knew them. And they were right in my case.
But again, I hope it gives me some points with you that Dr. Drake made a case that has me reconsidering.
I’m usually the first one making “inappropriate jokes.” I hold hardly anything sacred from joking, so long as it isn’t, as you say, truly mean spirited or completely callous.
I can usually tell when it is or isn’t. These sorts of jokes/remarks are perfectly natural, IMHO. It’s a true dichotomy, because I feel simultaneously sick about what happened, and yet the jokes come so easily in my head, like bathroom humor. Not for everyone, so I do try to avoid it around certain types – why paint yourself for a silly remark only to come across an insensitive ass, in case others don’t “get” it.
IOW, I don’t usually go there, unless I know that sort of risk to my reputation is low — or if it even matters to me.
True, but the Onion didn’t go around posting in threads on message boards where people were asking about whether anyone had been nearby and were safe. If I knew someone who had been there (Colorado) I don’t think I would have felt good following up a series of joke posts with a life or death update.
Having said that, these kinds of jokes are so ubiquitous that I think anyone who wants to start a thread without them needs to mention it explicitly. Such as:
"Dopers in Aurora CO – Everybody Safe?
(please use a different thread for gallows humor, I have no problem with it but am creating this thread for a different purpose)"
Bolding mine. Of course that would be rude. Indefensible.
By the way, I didn’t bring up the Onion to support my position. I brought it in response to another poster who I thought was making a point about the Onion not doing a ‘too soon humor piece.’
But yeah, I couldn’t agree more with the bolded part of your quote.
What seems odd to me in these situations is that the person objecting to the joke knows that it is intended as a joke. But because they personally don’t find it funny, regardless of how it is received by others, they feel they have the right to criticize the teller for having thought of the joke.
No one does the same for sentimental outpourings that occur immediately post tragedy. There are no self appointed critics saying, “too soon for ‘my heart goes out’ comments folks.”
A few days after September 11, 2001, I was doing a Friars’ Roast of Hugh Hefner in New York City. Outside, smoke was still in the air. People seemed very reserved and were not totally laughing at any of the comics that night. I wanted to be the first one to slap them out of it. I said, “I have to leave early tonight. I’m flying to L.A. I couldn’t get a direct flight. We have to make a stop at the Empire State Building.”
No one in the history of comedy ever lost an audience more completely. You could hear chairs move back and murmuring throughout the crowd. Gasping, groaning.
One guy yelled, “too soon,” which I thought meant I didn’t take a long enough pause between the set-up and punch line. I figured there was no lower I could go, so I went into doing The Aristocrats jokes. These are very blue. The crowd soon exploded with laughs and cheers. So: Terrorism is shocking and in bad taste, but a joke about incest and bestiality is totally fine.*
Even though I have seen your pic I think this represents you perfectly! haha
Seriously, even though I understand where your original post was coming from I appreciate the retraction. Gallows humor is a doper tradition. Good on you, thanks.
I don’t read the Onion much anymore, but I was reading it almost daily back in 2001, and I thought they handled 9/11 with a lot of class. (Err… as much class as Gallows Humor allows for.)
The article “God Angrily Clarifies ‘Don’t Kill’ Rule” springs to mind.
Huh. Given some of the names in the MPSIMS thread I was expecting far more tasteless, crude, stupid, and assholic things to be posted there. But even I, who tends to be more easily offended than most, didn’t really see much wrong with the posts.
Speaking generally, I have to wonder how the people who always act like they’re “too real for you, man!” online hold professional jobs or interact with adults in reality.
I thought about this yesterday - there is no IRL context where I could have made a joke about the shooting at the theatre yesterday and not have been met with raised eyebrows or even someone saying “that’s not cool; what the hell is wrong with you?” Not at work, not at university, not with my weapons master or my fellow fighters (who are a fairly rollicking and crude-joking bunch sometimes; half of them are RennFest people for crying out loud), not with any of my friends or family. I guess all of those people must be tight-assed humorless right-wing Republican dweebs. :dubious:
Well Una I have joked around at actual murder scenes so I guess we are coming from different places. Everyone has a too soon depending on the situation. On 911 I was not ready for jokes about anything. I wasn’t ready for any humor for days. But I was looking at the smoke in person. I soon found out my firefighter cousin was buried in the rubble. I took my uniforms out of the closet knowing I was probably going to war (though that didn’t happen for a long time after). But I had no problem with what Gilbert Gottfried said or when he said it. I have no problem with people thinking its too soon. Personal opinion. There just shouldn’t be a too soon rule.
But that’s a totally different situation - aren’t you joking to sort of cope with having to work the scene that’s right there in your face? I can respect that. However, most all of the rest of the folks being tastelessly crude don’t have that excuse.
As I said, I expected much worse in the thread. I was pleasantly surprised with how restrained some folks who typically are over the top were. I’m sure when the off-board snark starts about me posting in here they’ll be far less restrained. :rolleyes:
IMO wrong answer. Why this should not be permitted is exceedingly obvious. Pls don’t cave in to the losers and for crying out loud don’t apologize for making a no-brainer move.
I wonder if someone they loved were killed if this would still be “funny.” Hey bout that 9/11, what a hoot.
I don’t know, I think it borders on threadshitting and Ellen did the exactly right thing.
You want sick tragedy humour? Start your own thread in the bbq pit and have at it. No one really cares or is trying to sensor you. It was in that thread so it could garner maximum attention, shock, outrage, pretty clearly.
Sheesh, if you’re so ‘into’ comedy you’d think you’d understand. To pretend that you don’t see the subtext, (of shocking your audience for attention, unlike if you’d had your own bbq pit thread), I find somewhat disingenuous.
Threadshitting. Take it elsewhere. Let these people have their discussion, uninterrupted by your sophomoric/black humour. Ellen was right, I think.
Why yes, part of the reason I found the joke funny is that it was unexpected. Hmm. I wonder if that is somehow some component of humor. Nah. That couldn’t be.
I think Ellen is right, also. Kudos to her for getting it.
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