So when I watch the ending of Indiana Jones 3, the knight says “You have chosen… wisely. But, beware: the Grail cannot pass beyond the Great Seal, for that is the boundary, and the price, of immortality.”
Which brings me to this;
I was looking up on IMDB about Indy 4, and came across a discussion about how stupid Indy 4 will be since the Joneses will be immortal. This sparked a raging debate. Apparently many people formed this conclusion.
Other people formed other conclusions:
[ul]
[li]the grail could be taken outside the temple, and that you could remain immortal if you drank from it continuously (evidence: what is the point of destroying the temple, if not to keep the grail’s powers from leaving? My suggestion is that it is to spite the greedy person who attempted to remove it, by never allowing them to return and achieve immortality) [/li][li]you were only immortal within the temple (an interpretation to the Knight’s words, the temple is the boundary of immortality, evidence: the other Knight’s dying after leaving the temple). [/li][li]you were immortal as long as you continuously drank from the grail, provided the grail was in the temple, but you did not have to be.[/li][li]you were immortal after drinking from it just once, hence, the Joneses are immortal (evidence: the Nazis wanting the grail, Jones Snrs wound remaining healed, counter-evidence: they had no idea it couldn’t be removed)[/ul][/li]Now I formed the second impression. The words of the Knight can be interpreted in several ways. The question is; what interpretation did you form (whether or not is on the list), and why?
Also, what would you like Indy 4 to be based on? I would love to see an Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis.
I’m going with 3. After all, the other knights lived to a very old age and never drank from the grail since they left. So I’d imagine you were immortal as long as you kept drinking from the grail in the temple.
One change I’d make is that the grail itself doesn’t have to be in the temple, but if you don’t drink from the grail in the temple, you won’t stay immortal.
And I’d imagine 4 would be Indy vs. the Commies.
I’ve always had the second impression too, the drawback to being immortal with the grail is that you have to stay in the temple.
I’m also of the opinion that whatever they base Indy 4 on it’s going to suck. Lucas and Spielburg are both too kid friendly and socially conscious these days and Harrison Ford has definitely NOT improved with age. An attempt to cash in on the venerable franchise would I think come off about as well as the Star Wars prequels did.
The counter evidence for that is that they spent a long time in the temple, then died later, after leaving (of course, I cannot verify this at this time, this is the argument I see presented). I’ll have to watch it again, but isn’t the other knight looking very old as well?
It would be interesting if they did that Silentgoldfish given that they did the Young Indiana Jones t.v. series of the last century.
I actually liked that series. The again, I was 14 at the time.
I wasn’t, and I didn’t. I think the level of recognition the series has in relation to the movies is a pretty good indication that I’m in the majority on that one.
Weren’t there rumors that this would be a prequel? I guess it’s all up in the air. Amusingly, it sounds like one of the possible scripts for the movie is called Indiana Jones and the Lost Continent. Seeing as how Lost Continent was a movie MST3K mocked, that might carry some bad juju.
But the knights made it to Western Europe. You’d think with the age they were at, they’d die fairly quick after losing immortality. That’s why I think it is something you lose if you don’t continuously drink from the grail in the temple.
There was an interview with Harrison Ford in the LA Times yesterday, which said:
I don’t see how the Joneses being immortal necessarily makes the next film stupid. Let’s assume they really are immortal. The question is, how would they know it even if they were? Given the knight’s ambiguous wording about the effects of the grail, the Joneses would be just as uncertain as the movie-goers as to whether their immortality persists outside the temple. Therefore they’re probably not going to take any unnecessary chances with their lives. They will continue to dodge bullets and run from danger just as if they were mortal.
They’d heal instantly?
They still saw the effects of the grail. So all they have to do is cut themselves, see that they heal instantly, and then I’d say you’re pretty much assured of immortality.
The reasoning wrt stupidity went something like this;
"So how exciting is it going to be watching Harrison Ford and Sean Connery walking around, ruling the world with an iron fist while A bombs are dropped on them but prove to inflict zero damage? "
And I just found this; which makes perfect sense and changes my view:
Then again, why even bother keeping the grail around? Yes, there is a knight guarding it. A dusty 80-year old knight with rheumatism, arthritis and dementia. So what if he’s immortal, just push him to the ground and the grail is yours.
And when the grail was threatened, it fell to the depths of the temple. So much for that effort.
How do you know that grail immortality works this way? The movie never depicts anyone who drank from the grail subsequently wounded. For all we know, those who are immortal heal at a normal rate, or perhaps not at all (i.e., the grail grants immunity against natural death, not death from trauma). Just because the grail has the ability to instantly heal wounds when the water is used externally (as shown with Jones Sr.'s bullet wound) doesn’t mean that the water taken internally has the same effect, and for indefinite duration.
All true.
Come to think of it, I never did get around to watching my Indiana Jones Special Features DVD and listening to the commentaries, as it can be seen that several interpretations can be made regarding the movie. I wonder what their original intention was (and whether they put it on the DVD)
I found this humourous:
Personally, I always thought the hardest thing would have been getting out of there. It was hard enough to spell Jehova forward, much less backwards.
I’m warning you! If you say “Jehovah” one more time…
Most of this can be easily settled by looking at Grail legends outside the context of the movie. For example,what’s the most famous Grail story of all? King Arthur. What happened to King Arthur at the end of the story? He dies. Or at least, is mortally wounded, and must go to Avalon to recuperate until it is time for him to return. The Grail heals all wounds you have at the time you drink from it. It doesn’t heal all wounds you ever get for the rest of your life.
Now, what constitutes a “wound” is a little more interesting. It doesn’t stop you from aging, obviously, as the knight was very, very old. But what it probably does is repair all the little accumulated defects one gets from being old. Is that heart valve getting a little weak? Grail fixes it right up. Genetic predisposition to cancer? Grail snips that bit out of your genome. But if you drink from the Grail then take up smoking, you’re probably still going to get lung cancer eventually. But you’ll be starting with absolutely perfect lungs and defect-free DNA. Drinking once from the Grail doesn’t mean you get to live forever, but it does mean you get to live for one hell of a long time. The two knights who returned from the Crusades lived to be very old because of this, but after they’d stopped drinking from the Grail regularly, their bodies started to break down just like anyone elses does as they age. It’s just that all the time up until they last drank from the cup didn’t count against them.
The relationship between the Grail and the temple is a bit more ambigous. I think they’re essentially two seperate things. The temple was created to guard the Grail, but the Grail doesn’t need the temple to function. If you can get it out of the temple, it will work anywhere. But the temple was designed to make it impossible to get it out of the temple, so that such a powerful artifact could not fall into the wrong hands.
I always could have SWORN that I heard a line in the movie where the knight explains his age by saying that he aged a year for every day he did not drink (hence, you need to drink from the grail every day or else see your age catch up to you.
But apparently, this line was never, ever, ever in the movie, and I am crazy. Still, I could have SWORN that I heard it, because that was how I came to the conclusion about the fact that you must drink everyday to keep eternally young.
Though, otherwise, what does the hell does “it can’t leave the seal, that is the price of immortality” mean? Is the price of immortality that anyone who wants to be immortal has to travel through the stinky desert and some traps, drink once, and then you’re good?