English support for Irish World Cup team

Is it just me or has there been a awful lot of very positive press / commentary by the English/British press and pundits.

I’ve even heard you can buy reversible jerseys now :confused:

It’s quite strange as here in Ireland it’s probably quite the opposite :wink:

I was always shouting for the other team when England played anyone but recently I’ve been actually wishing the boys in white all the best. One of the reasons is I’ve got a English friend who “humanised” the whole issue for me.

As an example of the kind of stuff I’m talking about from an Irish perspective is the following E-mail I received

The bolded part of the text is there because I’ve been told that wasn’t actually said on the prog.

BTW a lot of the anti-England stuff is pretty east going. We’re not actually all screaming republicans. (I am but not all of us are :wink: )

I’m actually feeling a little guilty about the whole Irish side of this because the British side of it are being so nice.

I wouldn’t feel guilty. A lot of it seems to me to be a patronising “aww, isn’t it nice to see the plucky underdogs doing so well” attitude. The implication is almost that Ireland are trying so hard to be like England (in terms of football if not more) and we should pat you on the head for it.

Maybe I’m reading too much into it. Who knows?

The problem with the text in that e-mail is that it isn’t very accurate.

Johnny Vaughn’s show is a very “EN-GUR-LUND” type of show. Full of Johnny Vaughn’s not very funny, jingoistic jimes at other nations (its full of the “2 World Wars and one World Cup” attitude to Germany, and the typical stereotypes of France and Spain etc. ) And some very sycophantic guests on.

Prior when Johnny Vaughn said “We cheer for the Irish” he threw in “Its always good to cheer on the Minnows”.

Its that attitude when it comes to the Irish that annoys so many people.

Sure, we aint that big of a team, but we’ve beaten England 2 of the last 4 times we’ve played (two draws aside from that). We are a good team and we are going to give a good showing of ourselves.

Johnny Vaughn and his patronising attitude wears thin very quickly indeed.

We are a good team. Being called “minnows” by Johnny “The Jingoist” Vaughn deserved the response he got from Ardal (which read something more like “Well, 500 years of Opression might have something to do with it.” in a jesting tone.
Johnny Vaughn tried to get him to expand upon that and Ardal just gave him a look and said “well, I do have to live here [England]”:wink:

It was a smart remark by Ardal to a stupid question from Johnny Vaughn.
Aside from that, It is good to see the Irish being portrayed in a good light by the British Media. I also have to commend the English Fans in the World Cup. You’re behaviour will do a great deal of good for your reputation abroad. The only negative factor is that Korea and Japan may have been too far for the trouble makers to travel, and The next European championships (provided you qualify) may end up with more trouble. :frowning:

That’s not how this Brit sees it. We cheer on the Irish ‘cos we want them to win – it’s as simple as that. I guess it’s something to do with being our neighbours, coupled with the bonus of speaking the same langauge. We do the same for the Scots when they qualify, which is kind of ironic, ‘cos if you think anti-English feeling is strong in Ireland, you ought to see Scotland before a big match… and a lot of this isn’t good natured boo-ing.

PS - I think Johnny Vaughn is funny… but then I am English. I suppose you either “get” his humour, or you don’t. If you’re on the receviing end, then you probably won’t.

Plus there’s a whole load of people with Irish blood - I cheer for Ireland because my grandparents are Irish. I expect a lot of people are the same.

Johnny Vaughan is an annoying pillock who knows cack all about football. I could just about tolerate him on the Big Breakfast when he was alongside the brilliant Liza Tarbuck, but his World Cup show makes me want to hit things with fists.

Apparently Danny Kelly is writing some of it. It’d be a lot better if he was presenting it (along with Danny Baker). I can’t stand Vaughan’s delivery.

The rest of the BBC’s world cup offerings have been great.

Now, Danny Kelly I have a lot of time for, after his rather brilliant show “Under The Moon”. He is even handed, and knows his shit.

Danny Baker is an idiot.

Johnny Vaughn should stick to what he does well, dealing cocaine.
Actually, he wasnt very good at that either.

I do want England to do well. Infact, I would love to see them get to the final. But only if it’s against Ireland and we win :wink:

It has never really crossed my mind that we wouldn’t support the Irish team. I’m sort of surprised that anyone is surprised at the lack of animosity.

As for the political situation, it has little bearing on our everyday lives and views, I think.

I watched the Ireland-Saudi match in the bar, and we were cheering on the Irish team as enthusiastically as we did the English team.

I’m not a fan of Johnny Vaughan, so didn’t see the show, but he can hardly be said to be representative of the nation, can he? At least not of the small section of it that I inhabit.

So I’ll carry on cheering for Ireland, unless we happen to meet in the competition, that is …

Since I’m eligible to play for Ireland you shouldn’t be too surprised that I’m shouting for Ireland. Sometimes the “support” in the British media crosses the boundary of all decency, though. I’ve even heard commentators enthusing that “both the home nations (sic) are through to the knockout stage”. :rolleyes:

I’d concur with TwistofFate’s remarks here generally, and while the good behaviour of the England supporters in the far east this time round may be a flash in the pan, I’d love to believe it could become more than that.

It’s all too well-documented that England have the worst followers in the world (anyone notice the Union Jacks on display during the riots in Moscow?), but it’s less often noted that England also have amongst the best football fans too. At every game there are flags of several countries on show, not just of the teams playing. But I’ve yet to see a single game where there hasn’t been at least one English flag, and FWIW none of the games I saw in person at France '98 featured England. All jingoism aside, some people really do just want to watch the footy and are delighted to see the best team win.

In my experience, people here want Ireland to win for no other reason than they feel some level of friendship and togetherness with the Irish. They like the Irish people and feel of them that whilst they may technically be a different country, they’re really just the same. And that’s not in a jingoistic “your country is ours” way, just in a arm-round-the-shoulder you’re-the-same-as-us kind of way.

The kabbess refers to Ireland as “us” winning. She only does that because she feels like the Irish are “us”.

But I can understand why my Welsh friend wore an Argentian shirt the day of the England-Argie match. he gets a hell of a lot of patronisation just because he comes from a smaller country. And as my Scottish mate said, “The English would be impossible to live with if they actually won!” (He went on to say “mind you, so would we!”)

As for me - well, I have two Irish grandparents. Who do you think I’m supporting in these games?

pan

the thing is, I think it is GREAT that you would support us. I think that alot of Irish people who follow a club in Britian would follow how players in that club are doing in the World Cup.

I’ve been taking a huge interest in how Johann Mjallby and Henrik Larsson are doing with Sweden. If Sven had the good sense to include Chris Sutton in his squad I’d take a larger interest in the English camp.And I’m sure the gooners amongst us are disappointed that France were eliminated. :wink:

I know that Johnny Vaughn is only one person, but he is typical of an attitude that is prevalent in the English media. I would not equate him with the average English fan.

Best of luck to England. Its just a shame that you’ll lose to us in the final :wink:

I agree with this. I’ve always been able to relate to English people very easily. There is no doubt that our two countries share a lot of common traits and experiences (not all good unfortunately).

A lot of Irish people carry a lot of animosity towards the British powers that be and sometimes this carries through to the actual people aswell. I used to be like this but have grown up and realised that it’s a silly small minded viewpoint. The joking and slagging is fine but a lot of people over here carry their anti-English baggage with them 24/7.

I’m really hoping that your boys do it tomorrow. I’m going to an English/Irish wedding for the wkend and so half of the guests will be English. The ceremony is directly after the match (if won in normal time) so if England wins it will set the tone for one fine wedding. The next morning it’s up for brekkie then into the bar to get well oiled for the Irish match. The makings of a good wkend, no?

Anyhoo I’m of to the pub for some practice for tomorrow :wink:

C’mon Ireland/England.

What an event it would be if we both could get through and then see the Irish kick some English ass in the final :stuck_out_tongue:

Best of luck y’all

Later

sodfart!
I wrote a nice long good-natured post to this thread and it got lost in the ether.

lobley with the board like it is at this time of the day, all those pesky yanks clogging it up, it’s always a good idea to c&p your posts in notepad or word before posting so at least if it does go tits up you can try again.

Mixing my British and English up again a bit on re-read.

Sorry.

Sitting minding my own buisness in the International recently , I was approached by a very matronly old woman who noticed that I was reading about the Roy Keane saga . She was English on holiday and wondered how I felt about the fact that we didnt have our own team and all of our players were English. I didn’t get into a debate with the doddery old bat (I didn’t have enough knowledge of the teams composition to) but rather told her how much we appreciated all that her country had done for us…and I do believe I woooshed a 90 year old as she left with a smug grin on her chops. Ah grave dodgers…gotta love em eh ?

But the fact remains that the Irish international team is largely comprised of players who made their careers “across the water” , they’ve trained and learnt their profession in England and have contributed more than a bit to the success of some teams there. It is (to me) always slightly jarring to hear a Liverpudlian accent incongrously proclaiming love for the Irish and this is form someone on the bloody team !

I’m no soccer fan , I don’t know my Gullit from my Platini , but I would suggest that no small part of the English interest in the fortunes of the the Irish Soccer Squad stems from the fact that they are intimatly familiar with players drawn from their own leagues. Or as my dear doddery old lady had it “it’ll be like watching the England B Team”.

And you’re talking about “clogging”, too. British, English, AND Dutch. :stuck_out_tongue:

Now listen up, 'cos this is the answer. This is why we so dislike the England football team. This is why Scotland was awash with Argentina football tops last week.

The answer is the English media. When it comes to the England football team all pretence of being British vanishes. Suddenly they are ‘us’, and ‘the nation’ are behind them. I’m sorry, but isn’t this the British Broadcasting Corporation? So aren’t you being a bit presumptuous about the loyalties of the British nation?

I know that Scottish media are every bit as bad at this, but the difference is they are just addressing Scots. Any time Scotland plays, the bosses in London send along their own commentators and pundits. They can’t accept the Scottish coverage because it doesn’t contain the regulation amount of 1966. Yeah, that’s another thing. It’s coming on 40 years now, but they just can’t shut up about it. Every games that features Germany. Any game when someone hits the cross-bar. Russian linesmen. Red shirts. Finals. Pitch invasions. Hat tricks. Four goals. Green grass. Spherical footballs. Anything at all! All roads lead to 1966. A common bet in Scotland is to estimate when the first '66 mention will occur in the commentary. As long as Germany isn’t playing you can expect them holding out for about ten minutes.

So can you imagine just how annoying it’d be if they actually won the thing again?

Apart from that there is the media’s arrogant view of England’s chances. Half way into the Sweden game and you’d be forgiven thinking that they were already at the final. Sweden was apparently ‘very poor’ and none of them would get into the England team. Their keeper even had a second-rate Beckham hair-cut. (Cos as we all know Beckham invented haircuts, in addition to kicking the ball with swerve. Many footballers have since copied him.) Sweden then re-emerged to run rings around England in the second half, much to everyone’s puzzlement. Obviously they hadn’t been listening.

Then we have the Argentina game. Despite Argentina being very poor, this was proof indeed, not that it was needed, that England will sweep all before them to the final! No analysis of just how ineffective they’re looking in attack, nothing about how their captain has been pretty well anonymous in every game. And certainly no-one’s having too close a look at exactly how much contact there was before Owen hit the turf in the penalty area. I’ll give him this, his diving has fair come along since his embarrassing effort at the last World Cup.

And can we, please, for pity sake, just stop with the interminable footage of Beckham’s foot? What exactly are you expecting to see?

They don’t ignore all other British countries. But when they do, like with Ireland, it’s very patronising. They’re plucky, and just doing their best. As long as they remember their place, not getting any ideas above their station, they’re happy to cheer along. They provide some colour to things and maybe win a couple of games. But enough of having a laugh about those funny Irish people celebrating with their Guinness, let’s get back to the serious football. Here’s another five minute interview with each and every England squad member and just exactly did you feel when Beckham scored that penalty?

Honestly, can you imagine just how insufferable it would be if they actually won? They were actually discussing tactics to play against Brazil yesterday. That’s Denmark ruled out of the cup then…:rolleyes:

There’s some things we don’t care for in Scotland. One of them is being patronised, another is our support of England being taken for granted. Bundle this up with relentless and inflated English cheer-leading that bears little resemblence to reality and you have ensured that the opposition will get our fullest support. It’s a pity. I’d like to support England. I like the English, some of my best friends are English :slight_smile: If they play to their best of their abilities they have a real chance. It’s nothing personal, really. But I just know they’d be unbearable if they won.

Come on Denmark!

Can’t disagree with that! But you realise that even on the off-chance that England don’t win (;)), you’re still going to be hearing about the 5-1 victory over Germany in the qualifiers for, ohh, at least another 40 years…

As for the British / English thing - I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the BBC to go the whole hog on the English support thing. Come on - to be fair, the English make up 85% of the British population, so it’s not really surprising if the BBC talk about the “whole nation being behind the lads”. The vast majority of football fans in Britain are!

And this is going to sound harsh, but it isn’t meant to be… you mention that the BBC seems to treat the Scottish football team as underdogs. Do you see them differently?

Final point: support of the Irish has nothing to do with Brits just wanting to keep an eye on English Premiership footballers. If that was the case, then the English would be cheering on France, too. Support for the Irish is genuine; we wanted to see them do well (and they did) - but of course English presenters aren’t going to bang the drum as loudly and as blind to the facts as they do for England. So the commentators are biased - there’s nothing wrong with that.

Oh yeah. 93% of the English population still masturbate on a daily basis whilst watching the video of the 1996 4-1 victory over Holland. :slight_smile: