This!
And this!
End especially this.
Like I said, my interpretation is different from yours, but I’d have to hear from Second Stone in reply to my question before we can settle the issue. Right now you and I are working from different assumptions–I assume people don’t generally think blatantly irrational things*, you think at least one person does. I don’t know how to argue about that, so the best we can do is get clarification from the one person we are talking about.
*People think irrationally all the time, but not like this, in my experience. And I teach Critical Thinking courses so I see it all. What people do do, rather than thinking blatantly irrational and immediately-obviously false things, is express themselves imprecisely in a way which, taken literally, would be blatantly irrational etc.
To The Second Stone: In my post #80, I made reference to your gender by using the personal pronoun “he”. I apologize if my assumption was in error as I do not know whether you are male or female.
You said ‘do do’. Heh.
Yeah, I started really thinking he did it due to the following:
-
The stories are similar but not identical, and all have a ring of being part of the same pathology on the part of the perpetrator, to the point where if they aren’t a coherent narrative, the women would have had to plan it out as a conspiracy, vs. random ad-hoc falsehoods.
-
A few of these people really seem like they have zero reason at all to come forward…in particular the L&O SVU actress, who has a successful career and is seeking no publicity or money at all.
Better or worse doesn’t really come into it though, it is just wrong to make a life ruining judgement based only on accusations. Yeah Cosby will be fine, most people thankfully don’t feel like the OP.
I disagree. It’s not life-ruining for one thing (that was my point), but either way, I’m as entitled not to believe him as you are not to believe the women. If you consider this he said/she said, then it’s for each individual person to decide which they find more plausible.
Many many MANY more women are assaulted than innocent men accused. I just don’t really feel bad for the poor men who are so persecuted.
Well yeah, because people don’t feel like the op, but if most people agreed with him/her then Cosby would be pretty fucked. And it is not a matter of believing the men vs believing the women, it is about accuser vs accused. It is simply a better world in which it we err on the side of not punishing the innocent unjustly.
Fucked how? He’s almost 80 years old, he has more money than he’ll ever need, he doesn’t have to work, he won’t go to jail. If he did this he really did get off scot-free.
Here’s the thing…he’s going through this because he’s a celebrity. He’s put himself in the public eye for these last 50 years and has quite enjoyed having an adoring public. I’m not advocating putting him in jail without a trial. I’m advocating allowing people to form their own judgement over whether they want to support him by defending him and enjoying his work. If I say “yes I think he did this thing, and I don’t think I’ll be watching reruns of The Cosby Show anymore,” that doesn’t even fucking hurt him. So yes, it’s better not to punish the innocent unjustly, but he isn’t being punished, people are merely changing their opinions of him. I think he’ll survive, and I really don’t think it’s going to change the reality of the world we live in, which is that sexual predators get away with it far more than not.
False charges of rape are a lot more common than you think. For ideological reasons, there’s a push against the idea taking hold–to deny that it’s common. I’ll flesh this out for you later.
Remember: just like rape is sometimes about power, false rape accusations are always and entirely about power. It’s a form of rape itself (since we’re so expansive about calling everything rape.)
Not that I’ve the first idea whether Cosby did what it’s alleged he did, but I really do understand how being accused of a crime (though in no way actually being held culpable for it) is indeed a Much Worse Thing than being a victim of the same crime - if the crime in question never actually happened.
Plus how about this? How about society giving the accusers just enough benefit of the doubt so that these cases actually make it to court and the evidence is weighed properly? How about if women aren’t shamed, humiliated, intimidated, or dismissed into not speaking out, not pressing charges, going away quietly? You’re so right, we’re not supposed to ruin lives based on accusations, we’re supposed to investigate based on accusations, we’re supposed to try people based on the investigation, and were supposed to convict (or not) based on the trial. How about considering sexual and other kinds of violence against women serious enough crimes to at least give the investigation part a fair shake, and not start right there dismissing it out-of-hand because, you know, women are liars and men are paragons of virtue? That would be fucking awesome.
We are just going in circles here. If we lived in a world were everyone thought like the OP does he would be rotting in jail without even a trial, hell that is if he was lucky. Obviously we don’t so he is fine.
Hmm…sure? Who is arguing against this?
Please don’t, you misogynistic, racist douchebag.
Doesn’t follow, given the important distinction that has been highlighted over and over between what it takes to convict a person in court and what it takes to be reasonably certain about something.
Your implying that women aren’t as shitty as men, which is a load of shit. It’s also telling you don’t give a shit about men who are actually falsely accused. Do you have a son ? I hope you don’t.
If 5 young boys came out to media sources but not police and said a young female teacher sexually assaulted them. You’d be ok with everyone here labeling her a rapists right ?
Anyone who is picking sides in this freak show are morons. Condemning people for not picking the right side makes you an extra special type of moron. It’s as simple as that.
Until he’s charged with something, I don’t give a shit.
It does follow given how little regard the OP has for whether someone has actually been convicted or even tried before pronouncing them guilty beyond doubt.
I’m not aware of “multiple rape allegations” being made against Bill Clinton.
I’m aware of one. Juanita Broderick. I will also agree that it is credible, but hardly enough to convict in a court of law.
Beyond that, I’m not a fan of Clinton and wouldn’t casually dismiss the claim, but I don’t think it can fairly be compared to Cosby’s case. 1 is not 16.
Sure do. And I worry FAR more about my daughter actually getting assaulted than I do about him being falsely accused. FAR more.
I don’t think I’d have a problem with that.
Noted, thanks for your opinion.
Cosby has not been accused of rape by 16 women. Not even close.
Take away the ones who weren’t raped at all but merely kissed unexpectedly or touched inappropriately or woke up not knowing what happened, and those who lived with him and/or received money and schooling afterward (sorry, but I’m not buying for a moment that it’s common behavior for rape victims to choose to live with and embark upon financial and romantic relationships with their rapists) and those who went along with whatever happened sexually while doing absolutely nothing to make it known they didn’t want to, and you’re probably down to 3 or 4 at the most, and no one can say with any degree of certainty that they’re being honest. There’s just too much room for after the fact resentment or guilt, too much in the way of potential money from lawsuits or settlements, and way too little in the way of corroborating evidence to assume without question that even those 3 or 4 have no ulterior motives and are being honest in their claims that Cosby raped them.