Phew! I would be really concerned if a tough, fit bloke like you looked down on me.
Also, how the fuck do you know whether someone is ‘secretly self-loathing’, or do you immediately assume that if someone is overweight then they must hate themselves for being in that condition.
They are the ones that work out and still don’t lose weight. Taking care of your body is attrative, even if you are overweight, compared to someone who sits on their butt all day (even if skinny).
perhaps some one would be so kind as to provide the moral equivalency for being a judgemental ass. Does is in fact outweigh the moral standing of some one with willpower in one area or not? next on Geraldo.
Yes, dammit! I can honestly say it isn’t. And your statement of “it’s as simple as that” says it all. As another poster pointed out, any time someone attempts to make his point with that pathetic line, it is NOT as “simple as that”.
And no, I’m not myself fat. But I WAS. And I wasn’t fat because I was just lazy, didn’t care, or ate too much, I gained weight on an antidepressent several years ago. I actually eat a HELL of a lot MORE now that I’m fit and am a fitness trainer.
Your attitudes and beliefs are pat, old stereotypes which need to die a quick death.
I work with all body types and sizes. As I and others have said in previous posts, for the most part, it’s NOT laziness, or excess of food that makes people stay obese. It’s lack of knowing the appropriate and EFFECTIVE steps to take to get rid of the fat.
And for the record, low self-esteem is often, not the RESULT of obesity, but the impetus for a person who becomes obese in the first place.
Sheesh, you couldn’t get a clue if you were covered with clue musk in a field full of clues during clue mating season!!!
So. . . how do you know who works out? Are you a gym monitor? Do you interview everyone you see on the street to see if they pass the workout guidelines?
It’s like Whack-a-Mole. You bop one down and another one pops up. 
I swear one day I’m going to do a treatise entitled Woodwork and Its Asshole-Spawning Properties.
Mr. Hand, in your last two posts you have been able to articulate precisely what I am trying to say and then some. Although I am not really sure about that terrorist analogy, that first post had a lot of which I wish I had said.
They don’t learn to draw because they either A. Don’t really care that much about being able to draw or B. Are too lazy to learn. I would assume its A. What exactly is your point?
Ah, but you are speaking about the people who are going out of their way, putting forth the effort to lose the weight. This is exactly what I am saying people should be doing if they want to lose the weight. Now say you knew of someone who was very overweight, hated themselves for it, but continued with the same old habits and refused to take one of your, or anybody else’s classes to improve themselves? Those are the people I am talking about, not the people who are trying.
And I would also contend that eating right and exercising is a magic pill if taken long enough. And its not that they dont know it, but are too lazy to start doing it and would rather look for some shortcut.
Oh please. Are you actually telling me that people can’t tell if a salad is more healthy than a Big Mac? People know how to eat right. Nobody got fat by eating whole grains, fruits, and vegetables.
Stop it (whining smilie)!!
I have a cold, that hurt to laugh!!!
You’d be wrong then. If you are a women who is a size 20x or whatever, or a man with a 52 inch waist and you spend every other day for a year going to aerobics classes and don’t lose a pound, and then you try a different type of class and still lose nothing.
Eventually, even the most gung ho “I’m gonna change my life” person is going to get discouraged and if not quit, at least not do what needs to be done to actually lose weight.
THAT is what most people, particularly people who have spent a good part of their lives overweight don’t know. And that is, HOW to work out. What types of workouts create weight loss. etc etc.
Give us a break son of az, of COURSE that is NOT what I mean. Wake up and stop being so judgmental. No, what I mean is that most people don’t know how to put together an eating plan that correctly and efficiently fuels their workouts and their day to day lives. They need to be educated regarding how to make plans so that they don’t get caught running all around working and doing errands and suddenly find themselves without food and hungry and being forced to stop at McDonalds.
The most important thing, that I won’t go into because it’s been covered several times in this thread, (you seem to have jumped in on the last few posts and didn’t read the whole thing) is that whether YOU think it’s true or not, for many obese people their emotional state has a HUGE bearing on his/her relationship with food. And that IS a proven fact according to the fitness experts in the medical field. It’s a fairly new field of research, but they are having great success by unlocking that particular key.
And as with the knowing HOW to workout and eat right, and learn to conquer his/her emotional demons, the person that faces that particular road block, needs the correct pathway, in order to conquer that part of their journey.
So no, HELL NO, it’s not “just as simple as jogging and putting down the fork”.
people who exercise and take care of their bodies have a glow about them that normal lazy people don’t. i can’t explain it much more than that, but it’s not like you care, since you’re just trying to pick a fight for whatever reasons.
How conveniently you ignored the second part of my question.
Some people do want to learn, very much, but it is more difficult for them than it was for me, for a variety of reasons. It is possible for almost anyone to learn how to draw (read “Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain” by Betty Edwards). But, some will still have to struggle more than others to get past a certain point with drawing. Some will have to deal with more emotional bullshit (like being surrounded by discouraging, ignorant people). Some people don’t have the same “edge” for it as others do. It isn’t “as simple as that” to learn how to draw, though I must confess, it’s probably less complex to learn how to draw than it is to lose weight for some people.
The reason that some people don’t learn to draw isn’t always “as simple as that”. They aren’t all just “too lazy” to learn how to draw. I’m guessing that if you knew anything about drawing, you’d know that.
I see a lot of bad artwork, by people who obviously don’t know how to draw very well. But, pray tell, how can I know, just by looking at their art, if they can’t draw well because they are too lazy to practice more? Maybe they are just starting to learn and still haven’t mastered everything yet. Maybe they are struggling because they have too many jerks around them discouraging them or feeding them wrong information. Maybe they are one of those people with less of an “edge” for drawing, so they are having to put in more effort to improve. But how can I tell any of that by just looking at their artwork? You tell me.
I used to be fat (and there was no way that I could have been labelled “chubby.”) I married a brilliant, sensitive and attractive man while I was still fat. We met over our computers and go to know each other so well that there was no way that we weren’t going to love each other.
After bariatric surgery, I lost 150 pounds. I did it for health reasons primarily, but I don’t mind being treated like a real human beings with feelings now. That is a perk.
Being repulsed by fat people is a learned response. So is cruelty and rudeness. Obesity doesn’t bother me but I have developed my own “learned responses” to shallowness, insensitivity and dorkiness. I have no problem understanding why these boys aren’t getting any action. Saucers…shallow as saucers.
Salad is healthier then a Big Mac, but if you aren’t eating the right stuff overall you’ll go right to the other end of the spectrum. You have to get the right nutrients and balance them out. Not many people can do that in this day and age though.
I didn’t ignore the second part of your question. If I had some real desire to learn how to draw, I would. If I didn’t try to learn despite the fact I spent so many sleepless nights wishing I could draw and that every time I looked at my hands, tears came to my eyes knowing that they weren’t capable of Picasso’s brilliance then I would be just as lazy as the self loathing fat guy. However, I can’t draw that well… and quite frankly I don’t give a damn.
Overweight people make losing weight out to be near impossible. Let me tell you though, while it may be hard, if you have enough determination you can do it. When I was wrestling in high school, I had to control my weight obsessively each season. I had to eat the bare minimum and go through the most rigorous, strenuous workouts you can imagine. If the coach asked me to drop a weight class, I did, and I did it by exercising more, as I was already eating as healthy as possible. Have you ever spent 4 months without drinking a single soft drink, without eating a bite of chocolate, a single peice of fried food? It’s very difficult to obstain from these things, but I can guarantee anyone that if they did it, and combined it with daily workouts, the pounds would melt right off. So sure you might say “but Son of Arizona, you were already in shape so losing the weight was easy for you.” Well the heavyweights on the teams were fatasses. But let me tell you, our heavyweight dropped thirty pounds over the season, and this despite eating horribly, just the exercise was enough to do it. If he followed a strict diet plan, he probably would have lost double that. My point is, work out, eat right, pounds will drop off. If you would rather sit on your ass eating chips and whine about how fat you are, then go ahead, but don’t call me as asshole for pointing it out.
oh, I see. So if it happened this way for you, obviously it must happen the same way for everybody. and if you identify your problem as amount of will power, it simply must be the issue for everyone else as well. glad we got that cleared up.
Actually, I’m not trying to pick a fight at all. My first reply to this thread quotes SonOfArizona. You came in and answered the question I asked -although you weren’t right- even though it wasn’t directed at you.
You’re pulling Jessica’s chain, right? Because if you aren’t and this really is true then you should see Randi about that prize money he’s giving to anyone who can prove psychic abilities. I think aura seers qualify.
Sigh, it’s becoming VERY apparent that you have not read anything the rest of us have said.
1.) When you were doing this, you were in HIGH SCHOOL, under the guidance of a coach.
2.) Weight loss for wrestlers is NOT the safest healthiest thing to do. It has resulted in deaths for young wrestlers across the country, so while you might get the desired “scale weight” and looks that you want, this is NOT the best way to get healthy.
Cite? The news, the flyers I get in my instructors box each week.
Son/az, you are continuing to miss my point. At the time YOU did it you were in HS, and yes, already in good shape, not many many pounds overweight. And, to reiterate, you had a trainer, a guide to show you what to do, what sorts of exercises would result in the maximum muscle gain/maximum fat loss and still keep you healthy. (I hope, as I said, wrestling training has gotten a damn bad rap over the years).
These people did not HAVE that benefit of knowledge, guidance and training. You have no way of knowing if the person you see “crying in the mirror” is doing so after years of trying, and jogging and starvation diets etc. All YOU see is the end result, and then you make your judgment on why you think they are behaving this way.
Not “oh, gosh this person is in deeply troubled and needs help” but “this person is being purposely lazy and gluttonous, and then whines about his weight”.
Unless you are with that particular person each and every day and know for a fact what their diet consists of and if and when they work out, you do NOT know that they are just being lazy and willpowerless.
Well DUH!! Of course they lost weight quickly just from working out, and probably even if they were working out badly. They were TEENAGERS for crying out loud. Metabolisms of teenagers can rival that of my Australian Shepherd. When I was a girl? All I had to do was look in the general direction of an aerobics class and I’d lose 5 pounds.
I’m not calling you an asshole, I’m saying you don’t know WHAT you are talking about. You are flat out wrong. (usual disclaimer, that there are exceptions to the rule)
A person CAN, and I’ve got beginning students to prove it, workout for several classes a week, including kickboxing and other high end aerobics. And can diet until the cows come home, and STILL not lose any weight.
IF they don’t know the correct and most efficient way to work out, eat, and address their emotional issues.
Once these people start becoming educated on the proper techniques, (mainly adding the proper weight training to their exercise plans) THAT is when they start losing the fat, even if they had been trying unsuccussfully with all the jogging in the world before then.
Those that you see and malign so cruelly are not necessarily ones that just sit on their asses and do nothing and since you don’t live with or spend all day with them, you do not know what they just spent the previous day doing before they had their french fries or whatever.
And since you are NOT (based on your posts here) cognizant of the solution, and aren’t trying to be part of it, you and your attitude are part of the problem.
How do you know? It’s so easy to just say, “If I wanted to learn, I would”, but it’s all talk. You haven’t done jack shit other than say that you could do it. You haven’t proven a thing.
Sheesh. You remind me of the teenage boys (forgive me my sexism, but it’s always been boys) who see me draw, and say, “Oh, I could do that.” A few times I’ve given them my pencil and sketchpad and said, “Well, do it then.” They all look embarassed and shuffle away. They are all talk.
How many fat people spend sleepless nights? How many here? Raise your hands.
And how many artists are capable of Picasso’s brilliance? How many? None. Because Picasso is Picasso, not Degas, not Van Gogh, but Picasso. And there are many capable artists out there who will never, ever reach the same “level” as Picasso or Van Gogh. It doesn’t make them losers, it doesn’t make them “lazy”, that’s just the way it is. It’s true that almost anyone can learn to draw, but that Betty Edwards book can only take any of us so far.
I have a different level of ability than other artists. We all do. Here and here are some of my drawings (the first one I made up from my imagination, the second is of a friend of mine, drawn from life). So, how long do you think it would take you to learn how to draw similarly, if you decided you wanted to? Since you seem so confident that if you really wanted to, you could. (“It’s that simple”, and all.)
Sure, thanks to the Betty Edwards book, anyone can learn how to draw. But we are not created equal, and it will be a different experience for each of us.
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Excellent drawings, yosemitebabe. (Your friend looks a bit like Tobey Maguire, IMO.) Anyone who tells you it doesn’t take skill and talent is an idiot.
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