Well, I’m both a foreigner and someone who has an idea of the size of the US. As I mentioned in Post 43, I grew up in the Boston Metro Area, which has a population of approximately 4.4 million, almost exactly the same as Ireland’s as a whole. A valid comparison can therefore be made between these two regions, and Ireland comes out far ahead in having less violent crime than Greater Boston.
The USA is a great country - it is the engine that drives the world’s economy, its scientific and cultural leader, and a point of refuge for millions the world over. However, it is also, relative to its peers, a very violent place to live, and no amount of hand-waving can make that fact go away.
How is that comparable in any way? Ireland is eight times larger than the Greater Boston while housing the same population. Of course there’s going to be higher crime in denser areas, that is practically a criminology given.
So no, it appears that you don’t have any idea about the size of the US.
No, I’m not just talking about Ireland.The EU has more citizen than the US. Ireland is just a Staate of the EU, like New Hapshire would be of the USA. Violent crimes like this are mostly happening in South Africa, South America and apperantly the US. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying, that this does not happen in Europe or never has, just not as frequent and if it does, it’s a BIG deal.
If you comparing The US with 3rd World countries - ok, fine, but not the rest. The US is clearly a more violent place than any other cultured nation.
Although rape has gone down statisticly since 1993, but also risen again since 2006 (in the US).
How often do you think this happens in the US? And are you really saying that if this happened in Ireland it would be a BIG deal in Greece for more than one newscast?
Bystanders are under no obligation to intervene in a situation they witness, not even to the extent of calling the police. Some are probably shocked into immobility and horror – some probably get some kind of sick satisfaction from it. But we can’t go into their heads and figure out why each did or didn’t do what they should have.
As to the videos – assuming the rapists come to trial, it’s likely that video recordings will be crucial evidence in their convictions. And some of you want to punish the people who record it? I wish EVERYONE who witnesses a crime and has a camera whips it out and starts recording it.
If it’s “practically a criminology given”, then why is it that the four nations with the highest intentional homicide rates over the past decade are Honduras, Sierra Leone, Jamaica, and Venezuela, which rank 133rd, 124th, 53rd, and 182nd, respectively, in population density? Or that the four nations with the lowest rates (Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore, and Senegal) rank 4th, 35th, 3rd, and 124th, respectively, in population density?
Not only am I fully aware of the size of the US, unlike you evidently, I also am aware of the size of its violent crime problem.
It does support your argmument that America is more violent than other countries (apparently, especially Ireland), but it doesn’t do anything for your contention that this happens a lot in America and that it should be a BIG deal 3,000 miles away. You haven’t proven either of those things.
Of course, to say that Ireland is not a violent country is ignoring history just a little bit.
Actually, I wasn’t the one arguing that it should be a big deal 3,000 miles away. However, violent crimes (including gang rape) certainly do happen a lot in America, where I define “a lot” as “at a significantly higher rate than other nations at a comparable level of socio-economic development”. I don’t know why this is such a point of contention for you.
We’re talking 2009, not 1998 (and the Troubles was largely an issue in Northern Ireland, though there was some spillover into the Republic).
And if you want to go down the historical tu quoque route, I’ll see your Troubles and raise you Rodney King, Stacey Koon, et al.. I can play that game all night, though I fail to see how that makes the USA any less violent now relative to its peers.
I am unable to find statistics that specifically differentiate between gang- and non-gang rape. Moreover, rape is a notoriously difficult crime for criminologists to quantify. However, given these provisos, for rape in general, the statistics do not favor the United States:
USA = 0.301 rapes reported per 1,000 people (Rank #9)
Ireland = 0.054 rapes reported per 1,000 people (Rank #33)
However, you are being disingenuous when you single out gang rapes and ask me to provide cites. I asserted that “violent crimes (including gang rape) certainly do happen a lot in America”, and there is a mountain of data that can be marshaled to support that assertion.
Why is it so hard for you to accept that the US is a violent place?
Gary, Indiana is an outlying data point in there, it’s worth noting. They typically have the highest or one of the highest per-capita murder rates in the nation.
Because “The US” is not a violent place. Some parts of the US are, but the country is so huge and spread out that making comparisons between a small country like Ireland and the US as a whole is ridiculous.
The US I live in is different than the US Ferret Herder lives in which is different than the US tacoloco lives in which is different than the US kidchameleon lives in (apologies if these posters do not live in the US).
Fine. Never mind Ireland. In 2006, the USA’s homicide rate per 100,000 was 5.7. China and India, together accounting for 1/3 of everyone on Earth, had rates of 2.36 and 2.82, respectively.
But really, this is getting ridiculous. You say I can’t make valid comparisons to Ireland, because of its small size, and yet you wish to disaggregate the USA’s crime rate to suit your purposes, because your locality might be relatively peaceful? If I were to do the same thing, I could argue that County Cork, where I live, is even more relatively peaceful than the US, because Irish crime statistics have to unfortunately include Dublin, which has - relative to the rest of the half-billion EU - very high murder rates.
Fuji You’re engaging in very poor argumentation. You’re shifting the goalposts all over the place. The bottom line is that the United States is unique in all the world. It is the largest highly developed nation on the planet by orders of magnitude. It’s closest competitor is Japan at less than half of the same population, though it’s density is higher. The reason why your examples aren’t applicable should be obvious to you and we should be able to move past them.
Ireland: Ethnically homogenous, fairly wealthy, and lower population density than Boston.
Honduras: Chronic back-breaking poverty and huge wealth disparities.
The problem here is that people keep comparing the US to small little countries in Europe as though these indexes show something significant. Sweden, Ireland, Finland, most of these countries are the size of a medium-sized US state in both land area and population. There’s really no country on the planet that is similar to the United States. Germany has a large economy and a pretty big area but it’s still far far smaller than the US. China is roughly the same size as the US in terms of land area but it’s population is about three times that of the US and most of them live in grinding poverty.
The US is an anomaly, it is a large heterogenous population that also happens to have a high development index.
If you want to compare countries like Ireland to the US, you should be comparing them to states not cities or the entire country. Compare Ireland’s crime-rate to Massachussetts and see how it stacks up.