"Ephebophiles"---sting operation

Great Debates
1

Does anyone know of any cities in the USA that routinely have sting operations to catch Ephebophiles?

My DEBATABLE position is that cities in the USA should divert the resources that are being used for sting operations to catch street prostitutes, bar prostitutes, escort prostitutes, and johns, into sting operations to catch ephebophiles.

If anyone has been a victim of an ephebophile, or is a relative or friend of a victim, please private email me your thoughts on this subject.

Does anyone know if there is a statute of limitations in bringing a civil lawsuit against these sexually perverted sexual perpetrators?

If it is true, that one out of three females have been sexually abused before the age of eighteen, then my thought is that there is a high likelyhood that there are adults in local government and local law enforcement that are guilty of this crime, and would rather not have this subject brought to the attention of voters.

Sexual abuse of post pubescent youth by adults, either thru deception or forceful rape, is a scar that the victim will never make heal. My thought is that prevention, by removing the perpetrators, is the best solution.
jesse

2

Um, what are “Ephebophiles”?

If you’re talking about pedophiles, then I believe there are such operations in place to catch them, both IRL and on the internet.

3

Ephebophiles are sexually attracted to young (I’m guessing post-pubescent, but still legally minor) men.

4

How do they differ from pedophiles? Or are ephebophiles a subset of pedophiles?

Fenris

5

Fenris: I believe that ephebophiles would be considered a subset of pedophiles. The word is from the Greek ephebos and refers to a young man ( in Athens it referred to a youth of 18 or 19 that was just receiving military training in preparation for becoming a full citizen )- so yes, post-pubescent, but still a legal minor.

The equivalent term is hebephile, from the Greek hebe, meaning youth, and is generally the term used to refer to people who are attracted to post-pubescent, but still minor, females.

i.e. both terms refer to those sexually attracted to minors in their early to mid-teens ( 13-17, I assume ).

  • Tamerlane
6

Ummm… it would seem to me the idea that a 17 yr old can’t be sexually attractive to a normal male (or female) is more of a cultural bias than anything else. I wouldn’t exactly think someone weird because of it… hell, my cousin looked at least 18 when she was 13 and got hit on all the time.

Now, as far as any legal issues go, that’s another matter altogether.

7

For those that are interested, I found this site (below), that explains the confusion over the terminology used to describe these Minor-Attracted Adults (politically correct phrase).

http://www.philianews.org/define.htm
jesse

8

Aren’t pedophiles sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children?

9 
 So the all those people yelling "Hebe!" at me in public are not slurring my religion, but commenting on my youthful good looks? Hmmm. I'd been wondering why all those sorority girls would shout a derogatory word at me and then blow kisses. Once again, Tamerlane explains it all! Thanks, Tam.

Back To The OP-
The police do hold sting operations to catch adults attempting to have sex with minors. These have been made much easier by the internet. A single officer can go to a chat room and pose as a minor. Incriminating messages are easily saved to text files. A meeting is arranged, and the offender delivers themselves to the waiting police.

  Prostitution is, however, a more visible crime. People can see the streetwalkers negotiating with johns on the corner. They complain to the police. The police take action. Unless prostitution is decriminalised or legalised(The topic of many GD threads), the police are unlikely to change their methods of dealing with prostitution.
10

I suspect strongly that matt_mcl will come across this thread in the near future, and respond to it.

I know his POV on the issue already.

So this is a pre-post agreement to what I know he will write as more thoroughly thought-through and heartfelt argument on the topic than I can muster.

11

QUOTE Originally posted by DocCathode
The police do hold sting operations to catch adults attempting to have sex with minors. These have been made much easier by the internet.

  Prostitution is, however, a more visible crime. People can see the streetwalkers negotiating with johns on the corner. They complain to the police. The police take action.

Thanks for the information DocCathode,

I hang out at coffee houses and read, write, and observe. For the past six months I have been observing six “usual suspects” (Minor-Attracted Adults) having conversations with male and female highschool adolescents about their sex life. I have also observed these adolescents getting into the cars and trucks of these usual suspects. I have no hard evidence of any sexual activity. However, I did write a letter to one of the Minor-Attracted Adults in order to try and gain more information, with no success.

There was a recent local case where a teacher was caught, and placed in a diversion program, which on completion will exonerate him from any wrong doing. Many of the local voters here are upset with this, and so am I. I think the internet sting operations are good, but have not read anything about their success locally.

The kind of sting operation I am thnking about would require both male and female officers pretending to be adolescents, and start hanging out at coffee houses and other places where adolescents frequent. This presents the problem of the officers being able to look under the age of eighteen, much like the problem of officers having to look like prostitutes (decoys) in sting operations to catch Johns. Any ideas before I present my ideas to the local law enforcement agencies.

jesse

12

What state do you live in? You do know that the age of consent in the US ranges from 14 (4 states) to 18 (7 states), don’t you?

If someone in a state whose age of consent is 14 is attracted to 14 year old boys or girls, does that make them a ephebophile or hebephile? If that same person moves to a state where the age of consent is 18, do they then become a ephebophile or hebephile? Does that mean those terms only apply in the legal sense and no other?

And, I’m sorry, but to me, what you are doing seems pretty close to stalking.

13

Polycarp wrote:

And you probably also know that my POV on the matter is pretty much the same as matt_mcl’s.

The notion that teen-agers aren’t “emotionally mature” enough to decide for themselves whether to have sex with an adult, but that they are emotionally mature enough to decide for themselves whether to have sex with another teen-ager, and that they magically become emotionally mature the moment their biological clock strikes Age 18, is ridiculous. Let the teeny-boppers get laid. It’s good for their self-esteem and a natural part of growing up.

14

Demise wrote:

However, in some states, the Age of Consent is a moot point.

F’rinstance, the Age of Consent in Virginia is 15. But it’s also illegal in Virginia for anyone to have any kind of sex with anyone else whom they are not married to. Heck, it’s illegal to have oral or anal sex in Virginia, even if you are married to your sex partner.

Whoever made up the slogan “Virginia is for lovers” must have been working for the Virginia Vice Squad sting-operations center.

15

Originally posted by jesse morrison

However, I did write a letter to one of the Minor-Attracted Adults in order to try and gain more information, with no success.

Originally posted by Demise

What state do you live in?

If someone in a state whose age of consent is 14 is attracted to 14 year old boys or girls, does that make them a ephebophile or hebephile? If that same person moves to a state where the age of consent is 18, do they then become a ephebophile or hebephile? Does that mean those terms only apply in the legal sense and no other?

And, I’m sorry, but to me, what you are doing seems pretty close to stalking.

Demise, Thanks for your questions and comment.

Tennessee, Age of consent for male-female = 18
Age of consent male-male = law invalidated
Age of consent female-female = law invalidated

Your second, third, and fourth questions will take further research, however; at the site (below), if a person is travelling in the US then the age of consent is 18.

As for your comment, no need to be sorry, you do not have all the information. I was not going to mention this, but actually I did get information from writing the letter. The information being that I now know his gender sexual preference, and that my head might be severed from my body and stuck on a Tennessee fence post.

As far as stalking goes, I see no difference in observing humans for the purpose of gathering information, and surfing the internet to gather information. If Richard Dawkins is correct, that cpu’s are extended phenotypes, then what is the difference between the two? Humans are genetic and memetic information machines, nothing more.

I have had two wives (31 years of marriage), several mistresses, many sex partners, and with out exception, they have all suggested that I should work on being more Romantic (poorly copied meme for me and most people).
jesse

16

Tracer&Polycarp- You raise a valid point. I assumed from the wording of the OP, that Jesse’s definition of abuse matched mine. As this may not be the case let me say: There comes a time in a person’s life when they reach the emotional and intellectual levels needed to actually give informed consent. This age varies wildly from person to person. If a 14 yr old is at this point, I don’t see them having consensual sex with someone 18 or older as a crime. The human mind is a bizarre and highly complex thing. While there may be arbitrary age limits, they hold no developmental signifigance. As we all know, a US citizen can drive at 16, vote, serve in the military and buy tobacco at 18, buy liquor at 21, and be eligible for President at 40. If there’s a logic to saying that a 19 year old can kill other people on a battlefield but not buy beer, I fail to see it.

     OTOH There are people who prey upon teens. Using coercion to gain a teen's consent or to keep them silent. I assumed Jesse was reffering to the latter from of relationship.

 So-Jesse could you please clarify your definition of abuse? Do you term these relationships sexual abse due only to the ages involved?
   Secondly, gathering information over the internet has a distinct advantage over observing people first hand. A computer can not beat the stuffing out of you.
17

Originally posted by DocCathode

I assumed from the wording of the OP, that Jesse’s definition of abuse matched mine.

OTOH There are people who prey upon teens. Using coercion to gain a teen’s consent or to keep them silent. I assumed Jesse was reffering to the latter form of relationship.

So-Jesse could you please clarify your definition of abuse? Do you term these relationships sexual abuse due only to the ages involved?

Secondly, gathering information over the internet has a distinct advantage over observing people first hand. A computer can not beat the stuffing out of you.

What I have observered so far probably falls under— Contributing To The Delinquency Of A Minor. The Minor-Attracted Adults ages range from 40 to 50. The minors ages range from 14 to 17. At least two of these adults have professions that are authoratative, the others are at least Parent Figures.

When these adults sit at the same table and listen to these minors talk about their promiscuity, drinking, and drug use, and do not admonish these behaviors, but instead talk about their own similar behaviors, then I consider this to be, Contributing To The Delinquency Of A Minor.

If these adults happen to be Sociopaths, or Ephebophiliacs, then there is a danger of possible sexual abuse to these minors (victims). Being the understanding authority figure or the good parent figure will gain the minors admiration and dependence on these adults. The next step is for the adults to threaten to take away their love and understanding and preceed to make demands on the minors, inwhich the minors must go along with or risk loosing the relationship. Pimps use these same tactics when they are recruiting.

References:

  1. “Pimps Up Ho’s Down” (Documentary)
  2. “The Mack” (Movie)
  3. “Megan’s Law” (internet)
    jesse

p.s.—Secondly, since I am most likely going to die sometime, I may as well die for a cause. I’m to old to fight in our present war. It has been my experience that sting operations are politically motivated to appease the fears of voters, and to gain the voters confidence in order to be reelected. It usully takes a some what crazed zealot on a mission to go beyond this.

18

Not exactly the case.

For an adult, sexual intercourse with a child younger than fifteen is a felony (see Code of Virginia, § 18.2-61 and § 18.2-63. However, § 18.2-371 provides that any adult who “…engages in consensual sexual intercourse with a child fifteen or older not his spouse, child, or grandchild, shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.”

As you suggest, any fornication or adultery is also illegal - but both are only Class 4 misdemeanors (no jail time, and a maximum $250 fine). A Class 1 misdemeanor, on the other hand, is punishable by a fine of up to $2,500, and one year in jail.

So while consenting gets a little easier in Virginia at age fifteen, sex at that age is still a jailable offense.

  • Rick
19

I agree with tracer.

I would suggest that we do not need to create special terms for “people over 18 who find 14 to 17 year olds attractive” for the simple reason that virtually all people over 18 find some 14 to 17 year olds attractive. As is perfectly natural and normal. Fourteen to 17 year olds are not children. In our society, anyone 20 or older would be well advised not to act on any attraction he or she may feel toward a 14 to 17 year old, but it’s perfectly normal to feel the attraction.

What is un-natural and non-normal for post-pubescent people is finding prepubescent children sexually attractive.

20

Situation: Mr. Suave is a guy who wants to rack up high numbers; that is, have sex with a lot of partners. He tents to hit on anyone who seems inexperienced and unworldly; he sees such people as easy targets. For any given person, having been loved and left by Mr. Suave may be a pleasent memory or an incident greatly regretted. So long as they were all postpubescent, I can’t really see that it matters that some of his former flames were under 18 when they dated him, and some were over that age.

If you could interview all of Mr. Suave’s former flames, you’d probably find that some of those who wished they’d never met him were in their twenties at the time of the relationship, and some of those who were 14-17 at the time will smile and say, “Mr. Suave? Oh, yeah, I remember him; we had a great time.”