Etiquette has never been a strong area for me so I’m curious what other people think of this situation.
About three months ago a friend of my asked if I wanted to go to her Thankgiving dinner. I said sure, and thought nothing more about it until today. Word has gotten back to me that she is really mad I didn’t go, I guess she organized the whole thing so that there was an even number of people for games or something.
Am I wrong in thinking that a three month early verbal invitation is not binding, it’s more a declariation of intent than a signing of a contract. Furthermore I think it would have been rude of me to show up at the thing. First of all I had no idea what time it was, and If I had trully been invited I think there should have been a 2 or three day notice, and confirmation and notice of time. Also it seems to me the responsibility falls on the party giver rather than the attendee. Expecting someone to call to see what time the party is seems like you are making them beg to see if they are still invited to the party.
P.S. I didn’t want to go all that bad in the first place, but figured saying i would go was the friendly thing to do, and when she never called I figured it was a lucky break.
BREAkING NEWS: An unrelated friend on the phone tells me that usuall Thanksgiving thing is for the attendee to call up and ask if they are supposed to bring anything, but that still sounds fishy to me. I still think the host has the responsibility to make first contact if the last discussion was three months ago.
I don’t know if this is correct according to the etiquette books, but I would have assumed that if she hadn’t told you the time at least, or mentioned it to you at any time since then, that it wasn’t a proper (binding) invitation.
She should have called to make sure that you were coming and to give you the chance to ask questions - like, say, what time it would be. It’s her stupid party!
On a related note, my father’s family has neglected to invite me to Thanksgiving the last two years (my father has passed away, my parents were divorced, and I have no siblings - so it’s just me). They don’t ever contact me throughout the year. Then they call up and invite me to Christmas, shower me with gifts, and act hurt that I didn’t call to see about Thanksgiving.
I still figure if they want you there, they should call you.
Well, did you forget about her invitation, or did you decide not to go? Are you good friends or just casual acquaintences?
It is appropriate to call and ask if you can bring anything to the dinner. Thanksgiving is a huge meal to prepare, and hostesses usually do not mind help.
My questions still stands. It sounds like, at the very least, this was a miscommunication.
I think that in all cases the host has the obligation to provide guests with pertinent information, i.e. time, location, etc.
If none of this information was provided to you (and you should not have to ask for this) then it is reasonable that you were not in attendance. How can a host expect their guests to arrive without knowing when or where to be?
However, if you had received this information (whether through a verbal invite or something more formal) and subsequently RSVP’d (either verbally or in writing) then I would say you were in the wrong.
I would have taken the initial agreement as more of a rough-draft invitiation, the kind you do when you’re not sure if you’re going to have enough interest in the event, or to get an idea of the size of the event. An invitation doesn’t quite count unless the basest details are in place: Where, when, and what.
I’m at work, so I can’t cite Amy Vanderbilt for you, but–
It seems to me that a casual, verbal invite three months ahead of time is not a definite invitation. It doesn’t sound to me as if she told you what her plans were, and you are not a mind reader. How were you to know that failing to attend would upset some sort of delicate guest balance? Someone issuing an invitation has an obligation to let you know it’s a definite thing, either through verbal cues or by issuing something in writing.
And as for the “usual Thanksgiving thing” about calling up and asking what to bring: this may be the tradition in your social circle, but it’s not written in any etiquette manual I’m aware of. If you’re not privy to the customs of the group, then it’s just madness (and rude) to expect you to divine them on your own.
As any etiquette book will tell you (Miss Manners in particular), it’s not gracious for a hostess to make being invited to a social event a giant hassle for the invitee. My guess is that she would also find it pretty darn rude for the hostess to let word get around that she was miffed with someone who didn’t attend. I know there are people around here who can recite Miss Manners chapter and verse, so I’m sure they’ll be more helpful on this point. However, from the information you provided, you didn’t do anything wrong (although it would have been more polite for you to let her know you would not be coming, just in case).
What’s with this asking if you should bring anything stuff??? You don’t ask. It is common courtesy that you bring a hostess gift when you are invited to a social gathering at someone’s house. Bring a bottle of wine, a bouquet of flowers, a box of chocolates, whatever. Unless, of course, you were raised by wolves. Geez…
If anything, I’d think it was really weird if you just showed up at the door with a three bean salad based on a single mention months before the event. Normal people mention it again a week or two before the actual dinner, to make sure you remember the invitation and to give the details of time and place.
I mean, how would you even know what time to show up? She should have asked you again closer to the actual day.
Well, I think it depends on the occassion. If you’ve been invited to a family member’s house, and you ask and they say, “No, I’m all set,” then I don’t think you have to bring a box of chocolates.
I guess I phrased that wrong. Remember that was advice from a friend completly unrelated to the situatuation. But what my my friend said is that you’re supposed to call and ask if you can bring anything for the dinner, i.e. pumpkin pie, gramma’s magical caserole. Like I said it sounded fishy to me that thats expected. Although if she had called to confirm and I said I was going, then I would have asked like always.
Well, she was wrong in not contacting you, but I’m not letting you off completely. In the first case, the deal about you accepting, but not really wanting to go. That says to me that you were hoping not to hear from her. You remembered but had your fingers crossed.
What did you do on Thanksgiving? Did you sit at home or did you go to another party? If the answer is the latter, then you should have said “I’ve had another invitation, but don’t know if it is still on. Let me check.”
Last, being right isn’t all that’s needed to be a nice person. She is upset and you evidently are just trying to prove you are right. Tell her that you are sorry. Say that since she didn’t call, you forgot and accept the blame. It will be a “white lie”, but weird as it sounds that’s better than being right.
I also stayed home for thanksgiving for the record, which I much prefer to do because I can cook some good food, rather than try to eat the food of someone who doesn’t cook all year, then decides shes a blue ribbon chef on thanksgiving. But I know that when you tell someone you would rather be home alone than eat their cooking it isn’t very nice, So when somebody invites me I usually agree to go out of politness, and make the best of it when I go. It was just kind of a bonus for me that I was able to tell everyone else after that that I had been invited to a dinner already, and then when I didn’t get a confirmation call I assumed(and yes I was hoping I would have an oportunity to make that assumption) things had fallen through, and was able to do my favored Thanksgiving method of eating alone at home.
I wasn’t entirly forthcoming in my OP but I don’t think that really changes anything. Imagine if I had really wanted to go, like it was a really important thing for me to eat Thanksgiving dinner with people. I would have been sitting there Thursday morning wondering what to do. Not getting a confirmation call might be a subtle implicit unvitation. Perhaps the guess list had gotten to big and I had been culled. Maybe someone else she had invited didn’t want me there. Making someone call up to see if they are still invited just seems very rude to me, and it’s possible that could have been the situation for me, as far as she knows. Plus I’m not sure it would have been polite on my part to make the call. If I had been subtley univited than calling up to force her into an explicit unvitation seems rude in itself. I just don’t see where she has any right to be angry. The little devil on my shoulder is telling me I should fake that approach and let it be known how insulted I am that she blew me off from her party by not letting me know where it was. Now I’m not gonna do that cause theres no point, and she is a generally cool person. I was so happy that things had worked out on Thursday, and now I’m in drama again.
All in all that is what I was going to do.
The only place I’m trying to prove I’m right is in this thread. IRL I haven’t said anything to anybody yet, and I’m not going to. Just an honest poll to see if I was completey missing something about etiquette and low levell venting.
according to miss manners in her basic training: communications book.
the invitations to dinner parties, receptions, teas, cookouts in the back yard in descending order of formality:
engraved, hand written, telephone, spoken word.
i would put an invite to thanksgiving dinner somewhere around hand written, email, telephone.
i have 2 cousins who wanted to host thanksgiving dinner (different days). one cousin issued invites that were printed from her computer, asking for confirmation via email of attendance. i answered via email and at that time asked what i could bring to the dinner. the other cousin did up a cute email and sent them around. i replied via email and once again asked what i could bring.
these were people related to me! i would think that someone not related to me would go to that extent and perhaps beyond, if only to insure that i would not forget the date and time.
just asking “do you want to come to dinner?” is not enough, you have to know when and where.
IMO, if you’re asked to Thanksgiving dinner, not just dinner on some Tuesday, and you accept, then you have some obligation too.
I think she was wrong to not follow up with you in a three month period. But if you remembered it, and therefore worried there was some question as to whether you were still invited or not, then you should have called her. It’s true that she wrongly left you in the position of having to wonder “am I invited or not?”, but since you chose not to clear up that confusion, you ran the risk of being considered a no-show. Which you were. So I think it was badly handled by her, and not handled as well as it could have been by you. Assuming you remembered it; I think you could have easily said, “well, I didn’t hear from you and I’m afraid I just forgot.” Come to think of it, you can still say that, even if it isn’t true.
OK, i know unwarrented advice is bad ettiquette, but, well since you asked…
I do not think etiquette is a one size fits all thing… so for those of you who have been reciting miss manners, a tip: shame on you, oh, and trash that book.
IMHO, I think it very much depends on what kind of person the hostess is/how well you know her.
A. If she’s the kind who drops invitations at tip of a hat, just for the sake of doing do, and will probably forget about it, then you should just forget about it too. It is very probable that she did it just out of common courtesy… eg you were talking to another friend at the supermart, and she dropped by to ask the other friend, but you were there too and she didn’t want to seem rude etc…
B. If she’s the kind who you know will definately or most probably call (or issure invitation cards) before the party to confirm that you are going, then take it that you’re uninvited.
C. If you’re unsure, because she’s a casual friend whom you don’t really know very well and its the first time you’re invited to her Thanksgiving party, well i feel that the onus falls on you. Well, if i were you, i’d take some subtle action…like giving her a call on the day/ or day before the party, and ask how is she, etc. IF her invitation is valid, she’ll probably make a significant reference to it. You should be able to tell by her tone anyway.
Well, since my points are moot by this time, just make an apology and don’t make a big fuss outta it.
What Jodi said - she should have followed up with you, you should have followed up with her if she didn’t. Etiquette isn’t really about keeping your pinky up while you drink tea; it’s about smooth socializations that don’t hurt anybody’s feelings.
