Etiquitte for conversing with a pedophile.

Great Debates
1

This is a true life scenario and I’d like some input.

I have a friend, we’ll call him Dave, who confessed seven years ago to homosexual contact with a fourteen year old boy. (Dave was twenty at the time of the incident.) According to Dave the incident wasn’t rape or even sex and it was consensual. Also, it was a one time deal. Dave, a born again evangelical, felt so awful about what happened that he voluntarily confessed the incident to the boy’s parents, effectively outing himself. FWIW, I’m not sure about the legal consequences, if any.

I’m currently friends with Dave, though I did not know him when all of this took place. We regularly hang out and we talk about life issues. Dave is still a devout evangelical and openly shares his past in a Ted Haggard-esque type of way that inevitably invokes God’s supposed plan of redemption for all of us. I suspect we have these redemption discussions because: 1) he wants to convert me to his religion; 2) talking about his mistake allows him to contextualize it and perhaps distance himself from it.

During one of our chats today he told me he still dreams of doing youth work, which was his initial “calling.” To be clear, he hasn’t said he is or will do youth work, only that he’d like to. What’s preventing him is what he calls “baggage” meaning of course that baggage. I’m not sure if by that term he means legal prohibition or denominational prohibition or just actual emotional barriers… or some combination of the three. Haven’t felt too comfortable asking for specifics.

Today wasn’t the first time he told me how much he’d like to return to some sort of leadership role in youth ministry. Problem is, when he tells me how much he’d like to do youth work, I just cringe. I never know how to respond. I sympathize with anyone incapable of doing what they want, and I dislike the thought of being paranoid to the point of declaring, “You’re intentions are ALWAYS evil!” Even so, I don’t think this is something he should pursue, not even hypothetically. Which brings me to this thread. How do I indicate sympathy for him as a person but not necessarily for the career dilemma he has?

I really enjoy Dave’s company overall, and I’m glad he’s seemingly dealt with his demons through counseling. And, despite my not being a Christian, I celebrate the role his faith has played in establishing his since of identity as something other than his error. But like him as I do, I dislike hearing him want contact with teens. So, should I tell him? Or just keep the inward cringing to myself? I’m fearful that if I tell him how I feel it might harm or end our friendship. But, and I’m plagiarizing his evangelical philosophy of “total authenticity in relationships”, I don’t like pretending to mourn his lost ministry as I think I am.

What says ye?

ETA: I put this in GD because it contains “pedophile” in the title. 'Nuff said. :slight_smile:

2

Seven years ago in Canada, the encounter would have been perfectly legal, assuming “Dave” was not in a position of authority over the boy.
So think of him as Canadian.

3

He was in a church position of authority. Unsure about the title.

4

So his confession was only to the parents of the kid? Were the police ever involved?

While he may think that it was not rape or even sex (what on earth did he actually do with the kid?), there are a number of things that are in fact crimes when you do them with a minor and minors are often unable to give LEGAL consent (thus, statutory rape), and convictions for some of those crimes would prevent him from getting a job that involved working closely with children.

I would be extremely uneasy hearing somebody who did something like this talking about wanting to work with kids in the future. Look at the current scandal within the Catholic church to see what can happen when people who knew something bad was going on decided to sweep it under the rug and how much good “church counseling” did.

5

I would flat-out ask him, “Really? You think that’s a good idea? Really?”

I couldn’t be friends with a pedophile who was seeking an authority position of children. That’s like an alcoholic wanting to work at a bar. Bad fucking idea.

6

“lead us not into temptation…”
There is so much against this from a religious angle.
And don’t worry about hurting his feelings too much. He needs to hear he is deluded.

7

If it were me, I would try to lead him into talking about why he wanted so badly to work with youths. If he talks enough about that, he may come to realize (if in fact that is the case) that he is nursing the same kinds of feelings that put him in that position back with the 14-year-old. At that point, he might realize for himself what a bad idea it is.

I’m hearing that you value this relationship too much to just walk away or shun Dave for this thing, whatever it actually was, that he did in the past. Those reactions would be easy, and I honor you for not taking that easy path.

Based on that desire for an honest relationship, I think it would also be very legitimate for you to state, non-judgmentally, what your real feelings are - something like “I’m sorry, I can’t share those feelings, because I’m not convinced that you wouldn’t be putting yourself in temptation’s way again, with another bad result.”

Good luck with this,
Roddy

8

He’s not necessarily deluded about reoffending, many people do just offend the once and have insight.

But one would have to seriously wonder how honest he is being with himself or you about his motivations for that area of work in particular, its not a particularly small difference in age, and the (I think?) religious position of authority means it was a lot more than just ‘baggage’ or being Canadian in my view, regardless of the legal status.

My main concern is the language you report he’s using. It could be accurate, but theres a fair chance downplaying is involved, we generally do with things we’re ashamed of.

I would be tempted to be honest with him and say it worries or scares you when he talks about those areas, and that you’re worried he’s setting himself up to get into a bad situation or to hurt others. Lot easier to live with a lost friendship than hearing later he offended and you’d said nothing.

But it could be he’s just regretting what he’s lost because of that behaviour and wondering what he can do instead - when people feel they have a ‘calling’ they can feel pretty at sea once its lost for whatever reason. In that case it could be more about being honest that you sometimes find it hard to empathise with that loss given the context but encouraging him to persist maybe?

Otara

9

I was going to say that a sexual encounter between a 20 and 14 year old isn’t necessarily pedophilic but:

Yeah, I’d be willing to post flyers about the guy around the community and send in a letter to the local newspaper if he tried to get into a position working with youth. And I’d tell him that up front. It might be constituted as blackmail, but so be it.

The “triangle of offending” is interest, access, and stress. We know he has/would have the first two. All it takes is for his mom to die and he has a high likelihood to re-offend.

10

From a religious POV, there’s a lot wrong with the idea of him doing that. Tell him that if he is truly repentant, then part of that repentance is staying out of youth ministry, permanently. If he feels that he has been forgiven, that’s great; but just like you forgive your alcoholic mom without letting her babysit your kids, he can be forgiven without getting to work with youth. That train has left the station and it’s not coming back.

11

Don’t know on both accounts. Should I ask? I’m pretty sure he was living in Japan at the time as some sort of missionary.

I suspect the M word. :o

That’s what I sorta wanna do, only gently.

That could be true but I’m unqualified to make a religious case against his doing anything.

His stated rationale is “to fulfill God’s calling to impact kids for Christ.” I don’t want to totally dismiss his religious motivation as I think there’s some truth to it. But I also don’t want to dismiss other motivations for the same reason.

Wow! Great wording. I might quote that verbatim.

He speaks of his not being a youth worker as THE GREAT MISSED OPPORTUNITY OF MY LIFE (and almost always in those exact words). He tries to tie the point of his not being a youth worker to sin ruining God’s plans for all of us. But the way he immediately speaks of redemption almost makes me think he believes God’s giving humanity a second chance should equate with some particular church’s giving him another shot at his former position. Insofar as God’s ongoing restoration for his life is concerned, he’s ambiguous about what he expects to change, if he expects anything to change.

Other times, he seems to use THE GREAT MISSED OPPORTUNITY with a sense of finality as in, “I can never be a youth worker again even though I really want to” and ties it in with a don’t-wait-too-long-to-convert-or-it-could-be-your-missed-opportunity.

Depending on the parallel he’s making, his missed opportunity seems to vary in consequences. If he’s relating it to grace, his missed opportunity is just a chance for God’s grace to provide him with another, better opportunity. If he’s relating it to salvation his missed opportunity is irreversible. Though I’m not sure if it’s just irreversible for him insofar as serving at one particular church is concerned or serving at any church.

Meaning, his life as the equivalent of a Gospel tract can be hard to read and up until now I haven’t even considered asking questions about this subject.

I want to believe this is the case.

I guess the general consensus here is that 1) I’m not being mean or nosey for pressing him to examine his motives; 2) it’s inappropriate for him to ever work with kids. Not having kids myself, or ever having worked with them, this is very helpful as I have no self-confidence on kids issues.

12

Just a question – is he still attracted to fourteen year olds?

13

I wouldn’t call that pedophilia. You said it wasn’t even sex, so doing something sexual but which fell short of sex with a 14 year old may not even be illegal. Its not necessarily a good idea even if it is legal, but when I think of pedophile I think of someone forcing sex and sexual acts on a pre-pubescent child. The term gets thrown around too much anymore.

Having said that, I don’t think he should be working in a position of authority with youth if he is sexually attracted to 14 year olds and acts on it. Esp considering that you need a high degree of trust to work with youth as a counselor.

Also, from the sounds of it he almost sounds more upset about the fact that he had homosexual contact with someone than that it was with a 14 year old.

14

Mutual or received masturbation is pretty common as “sex” for homosexuals as I understand it (for insert tab A into slot B types of reasons). And goading a child into masturbating you is well along the way to committing further offences. Child molesters aren’t generally rapists (as in, holding the kid down and forcing it). They use their position and the child’s lesser abilities at reasoning to slowly wear down or “seduce” the child. They use alcohol and porno to get the kid in the mood, sing praise, talk about how what they’re feeling is normal, etc. and slowly convince the child to start servicing them in sexual ways. That the one kid may have only used his hands on the guy just means that they were early in the process, not that more wasn’t desired.

The question isn’t what the guy has done but what he would be liable to do given enough opportunities.

15

I guess I don’t really get the focus on Youth Ministry. I’m not a Christian, but it seems to me that there are tons of people in the 18 and over crowd who are looking for that kind of religious help. Why is he so focused on dealing with youths?

16

Twenty, with a fourteen year old? Once? As a repressed gay? Not a problem. To call him a paedophile is laughable.

17

Do you really think a one-off homosexual experience makes someone a repressed gay? I thought it was quite a common occurrence amongst young men.

18

.

ditto.
Most pedos/child molesters tend to really psychologically manipulate their victims.
It is kind of a tough spot. On one hand a 20 year old and a 14 year old are still pretty much “kids”
On the other hand, even thou they are still kids, they’re at different developmental stages. It’s still really ooky.

19

We don’t have all the details here, but it seems to me that Dave at least considers his past behavior a problem to the point that he might repeat it. So saying, “Congratulations, you’re not a pedophile!” isn’t really going to help. Unless perhaps that really isn’t why he’s talking about “baggage”.

I’d say you should try, if you haven’t already, to determine whether that truly is his concern. And if so, point out that if it really is a concern for him, and you also think it is or should be - you both agree that he should refrain from putting himself in that position, and maybe you can help remind him of that.

It’s not hard to understand why someone would want to work with youth specifically. After all, he feels it’s his calling. And not to try to manufacture motives for him, but he may even feel a bit guilty over what he feels may have harmed that boy and wants to find some redemption in similar work.

20

Basically, the focus is in getting teenagers to dedicate to Christ while they are still developing their identity and when they are most vulnerable to making unwise decisions RE sex, drugs, drinking, etc. Also, stats supposedly show that if someone hasn’t dedicated themselves to Christ before they get out of their teens, the chances of them doing so plunge dramatically.

To the OP- I ditto what everyone else has said and add one thing- technically, the word for him would be ephebophile, not pedophile.