even sven, please give the poverty schtick a rest

The BBQ Pit
301

The mind boggles at that one. Somewhere out there in the heartland tonight, the successor to Ed Wood Jr. is waiting.

(Actually, the successor to Ed Wood is probably drinking, but that’s another topic for another thread.)

FWIW, I had a friend who worked for Roger Corman, who is not exactly an auteur but who does have his own reputation, most of it richly deserved. Corman is also famous for hiring young people, mostly 'cause they work really cheap, but time spent with him is as good as going to grad school from what I’ve heard. Would anything like that have any appeal to you at all, Sven? Sometimes you have to hit things from different angles and certainly there’s no shame in hiring yourself out for someone else’s scut work while you scheme to get your project happening. I throw Corman out as an old-time example who may have no application to you, but I’m just saying there are ways, you just have to be as creative about finding them as you do everything else.

your humble TubaDiva
who does understand the path less traveled by . . . but who also groks you can’t complain when you get a blister.

302

Let me reinforce this some more. Sven, you are present during a golden age for film - a transformative time like the advent of talkies and color. Web films are growing in popularity at an astounding rate. Go to sites like iFilm and have a look. It’s raining soup, and instead of being outside with a bucket you’re in the house moping.

Learn to make short films for the web. You might not make any money at it, but if you make good films they can become a portfolio you can use to get paid making short films for other people, perhaps. And at the very least, you’ll be doing something productive with your voluminous free time (another luxury you should realize you have).

303

Sam, that’s really good advice.

Another thing-perhaps she could check and see if there is anyone else interested in a film project-and do a collaboration? Perhaps even get a website going.

Like that guy who does Neurotically Your’s? Holy shit, he just started making some little flash cartoons about a foul-mouthed little squirrel and now he’s selling Foamy merchandise in fucking Hot Topic. (Yeah, I know, Hot Topic, at least it’s something).

304

More free advice:

I second or third or whatever Sam’s advice about going ahead and making films on your own. Whether you become a big-time moviemaker working the multimillion dollar films is a matter of fortune, but there’s absolutely nothing to stop you from making films if you really want to. The tech is affordable, there’s a distribution venue via the Web … you can do it. And you still might hit the big time … people DO win the lottery. Even if you don’t, you’d be surprised at how fulfilling it can be to do something you really believe in, even if what you do is something as generally disregarded as porn.

Furthermore, don’t plan on making just one film, plan on making a succession of films. If you plan on making just one film, then all your success or failure rides on that film, and the pressure to make it perfect becomes intolerable. If you view the film as one of several you are going to make, that brings things down to real world levels.

Furthermore, I invite you to ignore all the rest of the advice on the board: you go ahead and bitch and complain about how tough it is, because it IS tough to live up to that kind of ambition. Just don’t let the bitching and complaining distract you from doing the work.

And take those meds. Time to think of depression as just another thing between you and your goals. Dump it.

305

-lv

306

Heh. I like:

Ray: Everything was fine until dickless here shut off the power to the containment grid.
Mayor: Is this true?
Venkman: It’s true. This man has no dick.

307

Zed http://zed.cbc.ca/go.ZeD?POS=2&CONTENT_ID=7860&FILTER_KEY=_root%20categories&page=content

308

I wasn’t going to post here anymore (actually I meant to stop reading these a long time ago) but that advice from Sam Stone hit my email and boy, is he right on the money.

even sven, if you do nothing else, read his post.

My personal journey as an artist is quite similar to what he describes (only sans degrees). I learned secretarial software on the job as it was being released, beginning about 17 years ago when I was supporting us while my Hubby earned his degrees. I’d studied fine art in college & was one of the better students (never finished the degree, though). I won awards. My HS teacher said I was one of the best artists he’d ever taught. But when it came to paying the rent, none of that mattered.

So I started working as a receptionist, learned Accounts Payable, learned other softwares, and had a lot of adventures. At one of my jobs I wrote proposals. At another, I worked with graphics files. And I kept trying to find a way to make money doing art that I enjoyed making. I also kept studying, working with various teachers in seminars and non-credit classes. One winter I wasn’t earning enough so I took a second job cleaning offices (i.e. bathrooms) at night, so that we could buy some Christmas gifts.

When Hubby was done w/school and I could pursue My Art full-time guess what - I still didn’t hit it Big Time. Didn’t even know where to start. I’d been in a couple of shows and was carried by a very nice gallery back when he was in school (I didn’t put my dreams completely to rest) but nobody seemed to care or notice and I didn’t sell anything.

So I took other part-time jobs and had other adventures. Taught some classes. Some of the jobs were fun, others were an insult to my intelligence.

Eventually I did figure it out. I found a little niche that works for me as an artist. Which enabled me to quit my final office job, at which I was making $20/hr (not a fortune in Chicagoland or anything, but I was pretty happy about it). But you know what, if I need to go back to office work for some other reason (steadier income, benefits) those skills will serve me again.

Sam is so correct to say that the Big Hit just doesn’t happen and it’s not something to bank on. It’s an excuse.

Follow his suggestions and start living a life.

309

Just before I begin I’ll list my credentials:

depression - check
artist - check
jobless for fourteen months with no savings - check

Thankfully I’m in a job now that I like and my husband and I are finally getting back on track, finally paying of some debt and finally being able to breathe again. I had to withdraw from a get this 20,000 investment to LIVE, to eat and keep the electricity on and I paid a vicious penalty for doing so, including ridiculous taxes on the withdrawl, but you know what? That was my only option.

Anyway, that’s not really my point. My point is my friend Chris, an excellent film maker, who, while not a billionaire spielberg, has been admired by several festivals and made awesome short and full length films on budgets of less than, say $2,000. Friends as actors, I donated lunches for the actors, we all donated props, costumes, acted as grips and gaffers, everyone pitched in because we had faith in the project. And he did all this in Alabama and Chicago. Not California. www.handeye.net is where all is stuff is documented.

No one here has said to use ALL of your inheritence, but if you take out 5,000, pay off a chunk of the loan, stock your pantry, get a professional wardrobe, pay for some counseling and perhaps rent some equipment…the 20,000 will build itself again in interest and you’ll be better off.

310

One of my closest friends graduated with top honors from Northwestern University’s film program. She’s as smart, dedicated, and talented as anyone I’ve ever known.

She’s producing programs on The Weather Channel, Weird Homes, and some true crime stuff and making almost nothing. She also has her own business producing business videos. You won’t get rich unless you create a freak hit. Those are one in a million. Take the advice you’re being offered and do something with your talent.

311

So much advice given, absolutely none of it taken.

How often do people seek advice and help and guidance, and then actually LISTEN to the advice? Try to glean something from the experiences offered up?

Sven is interested in masturbating her vision of herself to the rest of the world, and is not interested in the thought that maybe people can help her help herself.

As such, she should keep her “blowing-off-steam” ranting to herself, in a private journal or whatnot, and away from places where people who feel they have help to offer her are SLAPPED IN THE FACE (ie. stupidly and callously ignored) for trying to do so.

Sven, seriously consider why the hell you are posting your rants publicly, despite proving time and time again that you are ultimately uninterested in any advice. It does not speak well of you at all, and we quickly get really sick of hearing about people who hate lives they refuse to change.

312

I strongly disagree with this. Giving advice and having it not be followed is not even a lower-case slap in the face. Posting about a problem does not obligate one to take the resulting advice. While I do agree that even sven has posted some personal details about her life she would have clearly been better off keeping to herself, it doesn’t follow that she shouldn’t have posted anything here.

313

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with even sven posting her woes. She’d just be well advised to consider her placement and frequency.

MPSIMS would be a much better option if all she–or anybody else–wants is commiseration and validation. Rants in the Pit invite equally pungent responses. It’s the oft-repeated double-edged sword at work: Pit posts aren’t guaranteed to turn out the way the ranter wants. That greater latitude of expression runs both ways.

Nobody’s obligated to act on advice from Dopers but Dopers aren’t obligated to act as passive audience through repetitious rants either. It’s unfair to invite emphatic response then cry foul because the feedback wasn’t what you wanted.

Veb

314

It is the manner of the posting that gets me, as if she is lost and trying to find a way out of her problem, and yet is completely ignoring all the helpful steps she could and should be considering.

I am not suggesting that she not have the right to post - but I am of the opinion that she shouldn’t post repeated rants to a forum while demonstrating an utter ignoring of the helpful advice offered by that very forum. It is an opinion and a wish, not an appeal to the rules or a commentary on the rights of the poster.

And I personally do feel somewhat slapped in the face by people who keep asking for advice and never ever follow any of it. I guess mileage varies on that one.

Apologies if my personal opinion regarding this type of behavior came across as a fascist smackdown of sorts…

315

I agree with Giraffe here; this is way out of line. Especially your equating being ignored with a slap in the face. (I’d sure hate to be in a classroom if you were the teacher.)

If I may be blunt here: what fucking skin is it off YOUR virtuous, hardworking nose?

I want to hear from all of you tough-love, suck it up types, now. Tell me. Do people who passively resist your tough-love materially threaten your ability to get along in the world?

It seems to me that people like you represent a WAY bigger threat to people like them than vice versa. I can only conclude it’s the strong beating on the weak again; the flock pecking on of their own to death because they see blood and it disgusts them.

You can all go here for all I care.

316

Hans Moleman in the stands of the youth hockey game which was ruled a tie: “We paid for bloooooooooood!”

317

How on earth does expecting someone to take responsibility for themselves qualify as “tough love”? What other option is there - are YOU going to make it YOUR mission to turn the world into a place where she can flourish? Shit, if that’s “tough”, what’s “soft”?

Some people here are fed up w/her - so be it. Not the first time that’s happened, won’t be the last. And from what I’ve seen of her responses, she still doesn’t get it. It may take a few more years & a lot more ramen.

One interesting thing that I haven’t seen anyone point out (although, Og knows, there are parts of this thread that I skipped) is that her SO’s apparently wealthy family has made it clear that they don’t want their money benefitting her. Is that because they’re meanies, or is it perhaps because the stench of her self-pity has turned their stomachs? Of course, her SO is such a jackass, it’s a wonder they pay dime one for his upkeep (I sure as hell wouldn’t) - perhaps they blame sven for his petulant immaturity.

318

Are you kidding me? You equate a teacher getting ignored by students to a caring person repeatedly asked for help and ignored when help is given, often because help isn’t really sought after at all?

You think I don’t go out of my way to help people understand things they don’t, or to help them see choices and options that they might have missed, or give them all the support they need? You’re more wrong than I can possibly say, though this isn’t the issue at all here.

And before anyone jumps all over the support comment, I’m NOT saying Sven doesn’t need support, so don’t even go there. She DOES need a lot of support. I just feel that it is a slap in the face to those who’ve taken the time to type up their support if she doesn’t give any indication of even considering their words.

Is she sitting down with this thread’s posts and attempting putting together a step by step plan? Weeding through the advice that works and the advice that doesn’t? If she is, great! Given the repeated posts on the subject, though, I’m led to conclude that she isn’t.

Instead of coming here to rant rants that don’t sit right with a lot of people who have different definitions of what poverty is, and then run off to do more of the same, she could come here to rant, and then improve her lot considerably with all the kind and useful advice she’s gotten here. The first paints a really bad picture, and the second would put a smile on a lot of people’s faces. That’s all I’m saying. And that doesn’t make me fucking virtuous.

319

Since when is sven one of the “weak,” as you put it, Doug? I don’t think she’s weak at all, and if she has any self-respect, she should resent the implication you’re making.

She is an educated, capable young woman who is fully capable of taking steps to improve her life. Whether she takes those steps is her choice, and her responsibility. If she chooses to live in poverty when there at least some other options to consider (this thread is FULL OF IDEAS, if you can calm down long enough to actually read the parts that don’t make you all upset and self-righteous), then she is fully capable of admitting that this is a CHOICE. I think it’s perfectly acceptable to say “I choose to live on a much lower income than I could because it allows me to pursue my dream/take care of my family/have more free time/whatever.” It’s just not okay to whine about it. And I haven’t even addressed the fact that having a chunk of money in the bank removes one a bit from true poverty.

How on earth are any of us a THREAT to sven? Is she really that influenced by our opinions? Do you see any evidence AT ALL that she is influenced in the least by what anyone here has posted?

320

A lot of the tone of my last post may be explained by the fact that it “crossed in the mail” with the above post by Pucette. I took so long to post that I didn’t see it until too late. I would have backed off considerably had I seen it.

I have, however, seen a lot of contempt for self-pity here, and I don’t understand how people can be so smug when others don’t seem to be (emotionally? psychically?) ABLE to stop whining and do something. You see, I don’t think sven is playing a game with you. More likely she’s just unable to face the music her ownself. If you want her to stop whining, maybe you should just stop responding. Don’t keep trying to grind her into the dirt.

As I said before: it’s mutually reinforcing behavior. She bitches, you cringe in disgust and you bitch, she feels crapped on and bitches some more, and so on and so on. What’s the point?