even sven, please give the poverty schtick a rest

Indeed. I come from a background of people who did okay. I am currently doing okay, if slightly less “okay” than some. I could be doing better than I’m doing, but I choose for the moment not to, for reasons that are my own. I could tell you what these reasons are. I could justify to you each and every choice I’ve made, financially, educationally, and otherwise, that has affected my life situation. I could ask for your understanding, I could beg for your sympathy, I could demand your admiration; I could do any of a number of things designed to get an emotional reaction from each of you in regard to my life as it is. But you know what I figured out that differentiates me from so many?

NOBODY GIVES A FUCK.

even sven (and passengerpigeon): you’ve decided to pursue happiness in an unorthodox manner. That is wonderful, and I respect your decisions and wish you the best. However, as you should have been aware from the outset and are undoubtedly aware by now, such decisions often result in a period (if not a lifetime) of financial insecurity. It’s an inevitable byproduct of attempting to circumvent the system. Trust me on this: I know. My own aspirations are philosophical/psychological rather than artistic, but I still understand where you’re coming from. The point is, your decisions are going to have consequences, which in this case were/are not terribly difficult to predict. Complaining about them is unlikely to garner you any sympathy, and indeed may even work to counteract the understanding and support you’d likely have gotten from others in similar situations had you merely stated your actions and your reasons for doing them (rather than focus on their negative effects). In short, you knew this was gonna happen, ergo, deal.

Those criticizing even sven: some of you are only saying that she needs to quit whining. With that, I agree to a point (see above), and the following is not directed at you. The rest, however, are engaged in criticizing her choices, rather than her attitude about her current situation. Here I must agree with passengerpigeon that it is not your place to do so. I can see, to a point, where some of these posts could be construed as friendly advice designed to help sven get out of a situation with which she claims to be unhappy. Personally, though, I somehow doubt that sven is entirely unaware of the consequences of the choices she has made in the past and continues to make. Thus, informing her of means to alter her lifestyle is something of an irrelevant gesture. Let’s say, for example, that sven chose to spend her $20,000 inheritance on a couple truckloads of gumdrops. Let’s then say that, after doing this, she posts a thread to the SDMB entitled “I’m out of money again”, in which she details her current poverty and bemoans the fact that all she has to her name is $20k worth of gumdrops. Do you really think that, in this situation, she’d honestly need to be told that there are more life-enriching things to spend $20,000 on than gumdrops? Or do you think it more likely that perhaps she was aware at the time of purchase that the gumdrops would have no positive net benefit on her quality of life, and made the decision regardless? My advice to her in this situation would not be “you shouldn’t have bought the gumdrops; you could have done something else”. Even if she could change that, I’d suspect that she knew it all along. My advice would instead be equivalent to what I said above: “you had to know this was going to happen; now quit complaining about your situation and deal”. In addition to being more relevant to the situation at hand, this advice would also stand a far greater chance of actually being productive.

I find that hypothetical oddly analogous to a great deal of what’s being discussed here.

In closing, I would like to add, to those that would tell us their tales of rising from poverty to (relative) riches: that’s wonderful, I respect your decisions, and I’m glad they’ve worked out well for you. However, the instant you attempt to inject your own past experiences into a discussion of somebody’s individual choices as some sort of model that ought naturally to be admired and followed, I am forced to reiterate: NOBODY GIVES A FUCK. It’s sanctimonious and provides nothing of value to anybody who didn’t agree with you to begin with.

There’s a difference between self-congratulatory one-upmanship and using examples to show that someone’s situation isn’t as unique as they think it is, and hey, us old fogies might just have a wee bit of life experience upon which we base our advice. I am personally happy with my life, and could care less how someone compares it to their own or anyone else’s life, it’s my life and my happiness and satisfaction is the only measuring stick that counts. My previous post was responding only to sven’s conviction that she was somehow unique in her circumstances when in fact her situation is not only not unique, it’s commonplace.

It’s not about who’s poorer than who, because that comparison is useless; Just like the rich dad comparisons…useless. What it is truly about though IS working your butt off (in a positive manner) and not dwell in the negatives, no matter what comes your way except he only thing I would dread is the death of my wife or kids. That’s permanent. Everything else is temporary and can be overcome.

Funny how you mentioned how this thread is similar to “My dad is richer than your dad” comparisons. My stepdad started out with $3K and an degree in Optometry when my mom married him and started his business when I was 7 years old. I have no idea how much money he has now and really don’t care to. What I did do was pay attention to what he did do to get where he is today. I asked him for advice over the years, and borrowed (and paid back with interest) $5K from him to start my business, but never asked for a financial handout. Where am I going with this? What I’m trying to say it’s the method (hard work), not the status (poor/rich) that dictates this thread. There is no superiority (from me) here in this thread, but there are some inconsistancies that quite a few of us have noted here on this thread. And a few of us have issues with the responses given (mainly Sven’s “you don’t know what it’s like to be poor” and PP’s “fuck you, you’re an asshole since you don’t know what we’re going through”) as many of us have been through those earlier in our years and are still dismissed as “not understanding”.

Wow. I never knew “encouragement” was administered by way of a set of cat o nine tails.

Or, what Roland said.

Well the place was the Mariana Trench, obviously.

Just once. In 1960. For 20 minutes. :eek:

Based upon past experience (as pointed out earlier in this thread)…I don’t think that the advice offered by well meaning folks will find a receptive audience.

Which of course begs the question as to why she has requested advice in the past… :wink:

:smiley: Thank you.
(even if my laugh did wake my wife up)

I think people are more likely to need to vent about things that are beyond their control. If I have a problem, and I have the ability to change it, I don’t have any reason to vent about it, do I? I just change it, and then I don’t have that problem anymore. Here, however, if you have some kind of problem that is beyond your control, it’s all your fault, and anything less than hari-kiri means you aren’t taking PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for it. Even when people say “Oh, this part was my fault because I failed to do X”, they get reamed. By people who immediately deny being the self-righteous jerks they are.

If I don’t like my sister-in-law’s constant harping on everything me and my husband do, well, it’s my fault for not divorcing my husband so that I don’t have to talk to her anymore, isn’t it? If someone lies to me, it’s my fault for not assuming that everything anyone might say to me is a lie, isn’t it?

What the fuck ever.

Some people do claim that they can’t do anything about their situation when they really can, but I see a lot of people who seem to me to have problems that are at least somewhat out of their control get flayed, just the same as the IDBB’s.

NO! It’s the fault of THE MAN…and SOCIETY…and…and…and…anyone but ME!!! I Deserve better then this! I have a college degree!!! GODDAMN the PUSHERMAN! :: seethe seethe::

Uh, you’re not using them right?

:wink:

And I suppose that the opposite should be true as well? NOBODY GIVES A FUCK? Or does it go only one way?
Should I “not give a fuck” to a fellow doper’s issues? Should I just wallow in sympathy instead of “giving a fuck” to Sven’s issues? Are you saying that none of us should even give anyone advice because no one gives a fuck anyways? Should “experienced” Dopers just shut up and let the other Dopers flounder in something that could be avoided or improved upon, and then repetitively read about their misfortunes and still remain silent? What the hell?

I’m not pointing a gun at your head when I’m typing these “advice” posts.
I guess Logan’s Run might be on schedule. :rolleyes:

I’m disinclined to castigate even sven as much as some for not finding better jobs, based on my experience over the last few years. I’ve seen, until the last 6 months or so, several people with technical degrees struggle to find ANY job at all, in areas with reputedly 4% or lower unemployment. I had a very sobering experience accompanying a person to a job fair (giving moral support) for $7/hr phone-support jobs, and was appalled at the number of multiple-degreed individuals with real job experience - HUNDREDS of them, some with Master’s in actual Engineering, for a $7/hr phone job.

Hundreds of people, for 20 jobs that could be filled by a bright 10-year old. Many of my ex-co-workers with Engineering degrees had serious trouble finding jobs - some ended up at Home Depot, some at Sams Club, some at the supermarket, some at Sears…

I know that there are jobs out there, but I did see qualified, seemingly energetic and enthusiastic people struggle to find work, and that was very disturbing to me. Not slackers, not failures, not criminals or blackballed people, but good people with good experience and good degrees, on the streets for months. Years. I used to interview people for jobs, and hire (back when we hired people…), and I know there was nothing “wrong” with their resumes, qualifications, or experience.

It can happen, and I don’t know exactly why. At one time I would have really dug into even sven, but I’ve seen some scary things, that only just recently seemed to get better for most I know IRL. So I do actually feel for her, even if I have no advice to offer.

FWIW, PassengerPigeon doesn’t have any financial problems, and he’s not really in the same boat as me at all.

What do you put under your pillow to attract the Job Fairy? An unemployment check? An eviction notice?

Una, I don’t think any smart person would blast sven for being unemployed. Taking a three month vacation and then bitching about your poverty, however, is a mildly pittable action. I’ve never had three consecutive months off in my life. Since I was 14 I doubt I’ve ever had four entire weeks off in any calendar year. Who the hell has that kind of time or money?? Take three months off if you want, but don’t complain about the absurdly obvious impact on your income.

I don’t care to talk about my level of success or my Dad’s. Nobody gives a fuck, as we’ve agreed. But I don’t come in here bitching about my lot in life and the impact that my own decisions have had on it, because I made those decisions and bitching about them is, well, kind of insane.

There’s nothing WRONG about taking film at school (to be honest I think it sounds great) or going to India or living in northern California. But the evidence suggests sven seems blithely unconscious at times that she is the source of her own financial problems. Roland appears to assume that she’s aware of this, b ut I’m not sure she is, at least not at a useful level of knowledge.

You have 20000 dollars in the bank. You do not have financial problems.

This is the most important point to be made in the whole thread.

Agreed . . . I inherited $1,000 a couple weeks ago (the ONLY inheritence I will EVER get), and it was a huge windfall. Unfortunately, some fuckhead hit my car while it was parked and I was asleep and did $2,500 worth of damage.

My insurance deductible? $1,000 :mad:.

You missed the point by a mile, Yeticus.

Of course we should give a fuck if somebody is A) asking for it, or B) in any actual trouble. If you think I believe otherwise, please read this post of mine from a thread in which I, along with many others, was expressing concern for a fellow Doper, when somebody came along professing exactly the sort of attitude you’re ascribing to me here. As I said in the rest of my first post to this thread, though, I really don’t think it’s reasonable to conclude, based on what sven has posted to this and the linked threads, that she has accidentally stumbled upon her current situation, or was forced into it entirely by matters beyond her control. In a situation like this, where advice has been offered in the past and summarily disregarded, the practical thing is not to rehash the same old story, but instead to examine the attitudes that led to the current situation. None of that, however, was the subject of the comment you quoted.

“NOBODY GIVES A FUCK” was not aimed at those who were offering constructive advice with sven’s best interests at heart (I think there were a couple of those, at least). It was aimed at anyone who – here in this thread, or anywhere else – would uphold their own personal choices and their own prerogatives as “The Right Way”, while looking down their noses at those who would live their lives differently. In other words, yes, Mr. Corporate Vice President, your decisions have worked out very well for you financially, and I’m truly glad that you’re happy with the way your life turned out. That does not mean that others are “wrong” for seeking happiness in their own way, and defining success and quality of life in their own terms. Just as it doesn’t matter to anybody that I chose to wait tables and develop my philosophy as opposed to continuing with my half-finished Computer Science degree, it really doesn’t help anybody to know that you went and got an MBA and made all the right moves to gain yourself financial security. When it comes to what I’m doing with my life, basically, nobody gives a fuck. And if somebody whom I’ve never met apart from an online messageboard DOES give a fuck, then they shouldn’t, because it’s quite frankly none of their damned business. Their decisions were/are theirs, and mine are mine. Discuss, compare, contrast, and analyze all you want, but kindly don’t deign to criticize, judge, or worst of all uphold yourself as the model of What Is Right.

That is what NOBODY GIVES A FUCK about.

In the above sentence, “give a fuck” should read “give advice”. :smack:

I blame profanity as an entity. It’s far too appealing to primitive brain function; it clogs the mind enough to let stupid errors like that slip through. Yeah, profanity…that’s the ticket…maybe I can get the FCC to monitor my posts…