It’s kind of ironic that someone who is supposedly arguing about tolerance and tact keeps talking about the rest of the world as if it’s a monolithic bloc. It isn’t. The rest of the world could give a fuck if some South Park fans draw pictures of Muhammad. You know how many people watched the episode that prompted this discussion? About 3.5 million. That’s barely one percent of “you people”'s, nevermind the whole world.
I don’t think it’s going to do anything. I never said it would, and I think I already said so at least once in this thread. I think the principle is a valid one even if most of the actual protesters don’t give a crap about the principle and are just trying to stand behind a crude cartoon.
And again, you’re showing a total lack of perspective on this issue. At the moment you’re apparently pidgeonholing ivan astikov as some kind of imperialist. He’s not. He thinks a secret conspiracy (run by the Jews, if the rest of his posting history is any guide) destroyed the World Trade Center. And I guess you think I’m some kind of jingoist, which I’m not. Ironically you seem to be less politically sophisticated than Parker and Stone.
Yes, there is a disconnect there, but it doesn’t apply to this situation. You are missing the larger point.
Instead of looking outwards, look inwards. Go past your gut and peer deep into the duodenum.
The US censors the image of a woman’s breasts in television and print media, Europeans do not. Imagine a protest involving a bunch of half naked Europeans marching around schoolyards with pictures of naked women, telling you to “get over it.”
What I’m trying to accomplish here, is to give you a perspective of what’s going on. How this will look to people outside your monkey-sphere.
The last time we went through this (that’s right, this isn’t the first) the response from Iran was to have a giant Fuck Israel Festival. In which state media had people draw and depict the most offensive imagines of Judaism you could possibly imagine. I believe they tied it in with their Holocaust Denial Festival.
Having a day when you give the middle finger to Muslims simply results in them giving the finger back. They’re driving is unlikely to improve as a result.
I spelled it correctly. The Jews snuck into my computer and staged a fake typo using explosive thermite. If you learned to stop trusting the official internet spelling theory we’ve been spoonfed by the government, you’d know the truth.
Yes, it is ironic, but only to those that get irony.
Sadly, I have a perfect grasp of the perspective on this, and am trying to illustrate it. I am right, and all of you are wrong, which is why I am mocking your beliefs. That it goes unnoticed should show how difficult it is to show someone how stupid their beliefs are.
Has an example, consider re-reading Starving Artist’s thread. During which is is relentlessly mocked and humiliated. The result: dug in heals, further denial, a sense that everyone is out to get him because he is right.
And with that said, I don’t have time to deal with this any more, I have to go listen to Elton John while mowing my lawn. If it helps, re-read my posts in this thread, and pretend how you feel reading them is how Muslims will feel after the protest. The arguments you are using towards me are pretty much the same arguments they may make.
Well, that’s better than “don’t quit your day job…”
I’ll pass. But just for the record:
The answer is "Some Jews held their own Holocaust cartoon festival and turned it into comedy. In other words, they responded like adults and made Iran look even stupider. Considering Iran is a theocratic society that embraces Holocaust denial I think that was a significant achievement. Relations between East and West or Muslims and Jews were not affected because, as the satirical contest proved, it was just a bunch of freaking cartoons.
Perhaps, we’ll see. It’s certainly less destructive that invading a country, so I’m happy we’re making baby steps.
I don’t have time for this! You are all wrong and I am right, why can’t you see that?! What is wrong with you people?!
This protest is giving the finger to a group of very angry individuals who have demonstrated they don’t get ironic, satire, or sarcasm. Nor do they react well to criticism. If you want to make a point, consider your target audience. If you don’t understand your target audience, perhaps hold off on your protest until you do. This is where market research would kick in, and tell you what message works best on the people you are speaking to.
You should know that I think this is all a masterful joke, and look forward to sitting back and enjoying the results. As far as I can tell it’s what Matt and Trey have been working towards since the beginning, now dance little puppets DANCE!
That reminds me… I questioned whether it really was piss in Piss Christ. What if the artist was fooling us? Conversely, what if he had kept quiet about the piss? It’s not like Jesus was at risk of coming down with a urine-borne illness.
Who is it that’s claiming it’s acceptable for any of these things to happen? You honestly think people are going, “Well, hey, I don’t care if Muslims riot, attempt to harm or kill. Wait, you’re suggesting a situation where the Amish or Jews did those things? By jove, i’d be against it! My hypocrisy has been punctured!”
Really, who’s making that argument? So far as I can tell, there are certainly arguments about the best way to go about trying to persuade people otherwise. There are arguments about the extent to which persuasive or campaign techniques will be effective, and to what extent they are ethically a good idea. But I haven’t seen anyone questioning whether it is acceptable that anyone, Muslims included, riot, demand your death, or attempt to harm or kill you.
That part of the argument seems to be pretty much concluded; no, it’s not acceptable. Arguing about whether arguments or methods to persuade are bad does not imply a comparitive measure - they aren’t doing anything bad, so we can’t, either. All it is saying is that you cannot point to bad things done by one side, and declare that you get to do bad things, too; and that generally if you want people to stop doing unacceptable things, you have to restrain yourself, also, even from doing comparitively minor bad things.
Maybe it is old age creeping up on me, but I don’t recall many threads in which I have promoted an act of protest, frankly. I have started quite a few discussions about a wide range of subjects, but I am not sure how many of them could be categorized as “promoting an act of protest”. Indeed, as the moderator quite correctl;y pointed out to me in an earlier posting, I am not allowed to promote an event on SDMB, for which I apologized and agreed that my OP should really have read “What do you think of the May 20 event”?
I DID take part in demos in Ontario a couple of years ago when the spineless government of Ontario had agreed to a deal that would allow Jewish, Roman Catholic and Muslim (Sharia) family law to be used in family courts. As I recall I went out to protest with a sign that said: “One law for all, no religion in our courts”.
My sign did not say a word against Muslims, BTW. The demos were so well-attended and took the government so much by surprise that Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty announced a few days later that the entire idea was being dropped. So I would say that was a very positive outcome.
I think the May 20 event will have a “push-back” value. For over 20 years, since Salman Rushdie in 1989 (his book was published in the West, remember, so it was Iran telling us what we can or cannot publish in our own part of the world) there has been a rising tide of militant Islamic attacks and threats of violence against our freedom of expression in our own countries.
This is because Islam sees its rules as being something that applies to the entire world, and that overrule “corrupt” western concepts of freedom, individual rights, etc. To Muslims, the countries that are not Muslim are simply countries that have yet to become Muslim.
May 20, we are pushing back. Don’t like it? Suck it up. Freedom of expression is NOT negotiable and will not be sacrificed on the altar of Islamic blasphemy laws.
