I think the May 20 business or what is happening right now (see here) on Youtube is ultimately doing a favour to Muslims in the West.
BTW, YouTube is banned, like so many other internet sites that displease Allah, in Muslim countries, so the Muslims in Islamic countries will probably never see these videos. But I digress.
The basic message of May 20 to Muslims in the west is that they have to learn to suck it up and grin and bear it, just as every other religious opinion group (including atheists) has to do if we are to live in a country with free speech and freedom of religion. They must understand that Muslims are allowed to practise and preach their religion in the west NOT because it is God’s truth revealed but because in the yes of the state it is no better and no worse, no more or less ridiculous than any other belief system.
Those that can learn to accept this (not like it, accept it) are on the way to understanding our western values in our western countries that they have chosen to live in, and will probably become good citizens.
Those who cannot accept this are well advised to move to a Muslim country, where human rights take a back seat to the demands of Allah and his Prophet. Otherwise, they could end up convicted of assault or murder, sitting in a jail cell and wondering what kind of Satanic state would imprison a good Muslim for killing someone who blasphemed against God’s truth and God’s Apostle, Mohammed.
Mockage carries more weight if the self-appointed mocker has at least minimal spelling ability. How many times is it now that I’ve either had to correct your spelling or tell you not to take it seriously when people say things like “rocket surgery”?
Fool.
You’d be a better man if you did.
It isn’t about giving the middle finger to Muslims. It’s that the best solution to the “We will will kill you if you disobey us, infidel” problem is simply to create so many targets that not even an infinitismal percentage of them can be attacked. Think of a locust-beset farmer in the midst of a cloud of locusts, helplessly flailing away with a fly-swatter as millions of them descend upon his fields.
You know, it’s all well and good to repect the beliefs and culture of other people, but when they start to move into your culture and then threaten you with violence if you don’t live by their codes and standards, it’s time to take a stand.
Cause: Percieved insults to Islam.
Result: Death threats.
Cause: Actual insults to Islam. Advice to “Suck it up”.
Result: Happy realization of wrongs. All men become one brotherhood of friends. Valteron, seriously; I put it to you that your efforts will not result in what you think they will. I put it to you that they will make the situation worse. Hell, look at the reverse situation; for a Muslim incredibly insensed with the situation, the response is to send a death threat. They’re just pushing back, they just want you to suck it up. They’re sure you’ll learn your lesson. What was *your *response to argument via aggression? Did you come round to their way of thinking? Did the news of a death threat make you think, “Well, clearly this rational person has the right of it. I shall consider his views carefully”?
Or perhaps did it annoy you enough to want to push back yourself? Really, look at your own response. It won’t work. I’m not comparing you in tone or level of agression - certainly insults are better than a death threat - but the idea is the same. People’s responses to aggressive arguments are defensiveness. Your response to aggressive arguments has been defensiveness. What on Earth makes you think that people’s reponse to aggressive arguments will be “Hey, you know what, you’re right. Silly me”.
If Piss Christ invoked fatwas like the Danish cartoons did then I would support everybody doing exactly what you suggest. This isn’t just about South Park, this is about being able to say anything about the religion of Islam without fear.
A number of posters have tried to convince us that Revolution Muslim is just the equivalent of a childish prank by one “kid”. If you would like the truth about this group, see this report by Anderson Cooper on CNN.
We are not the assholes. People who make fatwas or follow them are the assholes. The religion of Islam is flawed in this respect and will never be a religion of peace as long as this Klu Klux Klan mentality exists. I don’t expect them to change any more than I expected a Klan member to change. It’s the youth of the world who will challenge this philosophy and they need to see someone taking a stand.
There’s a difference between making a stand for what is right and making a stand by what is right by insulting your opponent.
I am all for making a stand. It can be noble and just to take action to redress a wrong. I am entirely against making a counter-productive stand. That’s not noble or just, it’s just stupid.
I would say, if you’ll pardon the need to quote, you’re both assholes. They are more assholish by far, most definetly. But this is not a case of “they are wrong - so we are the white-hatted good guys, all we do is correct”. It is possible to both oppose a great wrong and yet be a bad person in doing so. And, perhaps more to the point, it is possible to oppose a great wrong and yet not be assholish at all.
Ali is in the second half of the report. She basically says what we have been saying in this thread, about multiplying the targets until it becomes impossible for the Islamofascists to deal with them all. Also, don’t miss the part in which the so-called “kid” speaking for Revolution Muslim.Com says it is the duty of Muslims to terrorize. Watch that report and tell me that the web site “warning” was just a crazy stunt by a crazy kid.
Mohammed wasn’t even portrayed in the cartoon so there is no way it can be protested without causing insult. The reaction to the cartoon means that criticism of Islam is completely off the table. So yes, it needs to be done this way to make a point.
Quite apart from anything else, this is ridiculous. Since when does somebody have to be depicted to be criticized? Did Swift and Voltaire illustrate their works?
HAHA You have an extra “will” in there, so you lose. "we will will will will will
And it’s infinitesimal genius, unless you think we’re talking about calculus. You spelled something wrong, so private health care sucks. GO UHC!!!111one.
It is also a failure in logic to assume that by creating more targets they’ll be overwhelmed and give up. You’ve created so many targets that they don’t have to go the Netherlands to make their point. An infinitismal percentage of infinity is still greater than zero.
There are now more targets, which means are now more examples of why America is the Great Satan.
Fuck you’re stupid. You think finding a spelling mistake makes you smart? What happens when someone misspells Muhammad on one of their drawings? Is the whole cause lost?
It’s interesting that you mention the KKK. In one of his books (maybe Tipping point) Malcolm Gladwell talks about the destruction of the Klan. To paraphrase: Some how a guy got a hold of the Klan’s code book. This guy incorporated the code words into a radio broadcast of Superman, in which superman was battling the Klan.
One of the Klan leaders game home one day to find his kid playing “superman” yelling the codewords to his friends, and laughing at how stupid they were. Seeing his kid make fun of his organization was enough to cause it to fall apart.
I never meant to suggest that you shouldn’t find for your right to free speech, or that violent threats against speech are acceptable. I’m trying to shed some light on a situation, in the hopes of producing a better result.
Satirists have been working at this for centuries. This is hardly the first time criticism of someone in power has been suppressed with violence. It wasn’t that long ago that Christians were dealing with the same problem, hence the French expression sacrebleu.
The trick is to think a little (perhaps an infinitismal amount), and come up with a workaround system. South Park made their point perfectly and never had to show Mohammad.
