I think the point is that no-one should be making “forced, petty, insincere bullshit conversation” with someone they want to sleep with.
If you have to feign an interest in their life, you probably shouldn’t be trying to have a sexual relationship with them. Yes, dating with the intention of sex after the date is a relationship, like it or not.
If you want no-strings sex, go out and fucking have some, either a hookup from a singles bar, where all that’s asked in return is that you try not to be selfish in bed, or with a sex worker, where simply paying gets you what you want.
Seriously though, I think the latter is his best bet, I don’t picture AT as a sensitive and generous lover.
The fact is that Argent Towers is a couple of steps away from claiming that paying for dinner entitles you to have sex, or rather, regretting the fact that it doesn’t. Which IMO puts him way off the “poor lonely, shy guy” scale, and well onto the “misogynisitic bastard” end of things.
When I said “nervous” I meant that as applied to lonely men in general. In AT’s case, he said that he has trouble relating to women. Not a real turn on, I’m sure, but hardly the crime of the millenium.
Let me guess, tdn; are we doing a little projection here? Perhaps this is (was) your experience with women, which is why yuo felt like coming to this jerk’s defence? Look, I’m sure you’re a nice person, you seem nice, but this person… not so nice. So while we all feel for you, let’s not get confused. You’re point wasn’t valid because this guy doesn’t " get nervous around women." He wants hooker sex, for free. And I think an earlier point is valid (don’t feel like looking it up) AT would be NO FUN in bed. If you won’t even talk to girl, I’m pretty sure you have no interest in making sure she gets hers. Which wouldn’t endear him any gay men either, I’m sure.
I just don’t get this, how does one have trouble relating to women? Are there a different set of questions we’re supposed to be asking? I thought that taking a general interest in someone’s life and thoughts was all that’s really required to relate with anybody. Have I been going about it all wrong?
It seems to me that if someone’s having trouble relating to women on a personal level, then they’re not treating women on a personal level.
Honestly I don’t either. Dating can be fun. It can also be a colossal pain in the ass. Sometimes I look forward to the dinners and the getting-to-know-you conversations and the buying of flowers. And sometimes I want to dispense with all of that and get me some hot monkey lovin’.
It is possible that Argent Towers’ OP was not meant to say “I dislike women” but rather “I find myself not having common interests with the women I know”. Granted, he did get a little afield from that with the “If I want sex, I have to put up with this and wine and dine girls” bit, but he may not actually be the sort of jerk that a couple of the lines in his post might imply.
I’m willing to go with “poorly expressed” over “hateful”, until I have some more explanation from Argent Towers. As I said here, I think he may just know women whom he doesn’t relate to.
I can see a way in which his OP can be read along those lines, and I’ll thus give him the beneift of the doubt, unless he gives me further reason to believe he meant something else.
Quote:
"It was a half joke. Yes, I do find it worth it to put in the effort. And sometimes I don’t, so I don’t bother. But yeah, it would be great if women bestowed their sexual favors on me with no effort on my part. I’d also like to get paychecks for watching TV. I’d also like to rent-free in a mansion on the Riviera.
Wouldn’t you?"
Well, sorta, but TV isn’t sex. Televisions are inanimate; women are not. So it’s not a valid comparison.
I don’t know … I kind of read that as disillusionment with “the game” and the way “the game” works. Others MMV.
**Argent ** was likely just ranting, and not really expressing himself well. Many young single guys, from time to time, have feelings not too different from what he expressed in his MPSIMS OP. It’s not true misogyny – it’s venting.
What Argent may not have stopped to realize is that relationships with his male buddies takes work and effort, too. No, you don’t have to “court” them romantcally, but you do have to be open to conversation, make time, spend money on mutually appreciated activities, etc.
The trick is: one day, almost certainly, there will come along a woman with whom companionate intimacy is easy as it is with his male friends. And at the same time, he’ll have the hots for her – and she for he. And he’ll have never actively looked for, and he’ll never see her coming.
I think this is almost certainly true. If you can’t relate to women fully clothed, you probably ain’t gonna do so well when the clothes hit the floor. I love hanging out with my female friends for just this reason (well that, and the fact that they’re, you know, my friends). If they’re comfortable around you, you can pick up some amazing tips. Now, if I’m the only guy at the table, and they start talking about The Bachelor or something, I zone out or go to the bar for a fresh pint. But, you can almost always at least find out what they hate, just by encouraging them to bitch about their husbands and boyfriends.
I think the poetic justice would be in handing him over to the gay women. Just think! An additional group of women who wouldn’t sleep with him to save their lives!
At the risk of incurring the wrath of women everywhere…
Yes.
I spent a huge amount of my life as a lonely guy. I simply didn’t have the tools to deal with women. Not only did I not have the tools, I was largely unaware that there was a toolbox. I saw guys all around me hooking up, and I couldn’t understand why I wasn’t. I went through a lot of self-loathing, but on occasion my frustration would turn outwards, and while the root of my problems was loving women a little too much, I’m sure my rants resembled misogyny. No doubt that’s how others saw it.
And it’s not that I was a bad person. I certainly didn’t deserve the attitude that I got, which is very like the pile-on in this thread. The reason I’m more forgiving of AT is because I know exactly where he’s coming from. Far more so than the rest of you, I imagine.
The difference between me and AT is that one day (12/31/92) I decided to do something about it. I’d had enough. I made a vow to figure out just how this dating thing works.
Around 7 months from that date, there was a week when I had 6 dates with 4 women, 2 of whom slept with me. On the seventh day, I rested. And I saw that it was good.
Ironically I changed my luck by becoming more selfish and less considerate of women.
