Everyone would be better off if you were gay, Argent Towers.

[The_Hook]

@Argent Towers

At the same time I was bitter because I envied my dad. He was (and is) extremely charming and flattering and knows exactly what to tell women. I was really frustrated that I wasn’t having any success with girls and that he was having more success than a man could hope for. I used to ask him for advice, and he’d invariably tell me the same shit: “tell them exactly what they want to hear. Flatter them, compliment them, ask them questions about themselves.”

It infuriated me to hear this. Why should I pander to such a selfish attitude on a date with a girl? I didn’t understand why girls would be so shallow and self-centered that all you needed to do to “get them” was to ask them about themselves and pretend to be interested in the most mundane shit about their lives.

You’re receiving a lot of bullshit about your dad on this thread. No, don’t mind what everyone else says, your dad is not the only human who thinks this way. That’s 90% of the people who are successful at dating or scoring (and my statistics are always right, 75% of adults 18-45 know that). That’s what they say. I think the truth is that not even they know how they do it. You and I are one year apart in the age range and I understand where you’re coming from. The ability to date most women our age lies in your level of tolerance. Some men can be oblivious of the situation they’re in and go with the flow while other men have their conscious barging in, asking questions, reminding you that nobody cares what you’re talking about.

I’m talking about small talk.

Meanwhile I was having a lot of awkward, stupid relationships with girls, and didn’t know what the hell I was doing. I didn’t really know if the girls felt any attraction to me, and I didn’t just go right ahead and ask them because my dad had always told me you “can’t do that.” According to my wise father, I was supposed to keep taking them out, keep having talks with them, keep buying them coffee, keep flattering them, and then if they liked me , “something would develop” and “we’d both know it.”

113% of men pass this off as knowledge.

I couldn’t stand this concept. I didn’t feel like I had any connection or anything in common with any of these girls. I told my dad that I found these girls uninteresting and that I wanted real intellectual conversation, not small talk. And he told me, “all relationships start out with small talk.” This felt like a dagger in my heart, because I hate small talk. Also, I had been small-talking these girls in my life over and over and over again, and wondered, when is that “thing” going to “develop” that I kept hearing about. And here I was in college where “everyone gets laid,” and I wasn’t getting laid, because I didn’t know what the fuck I was doing.

Small talk is horrible. It is the worst way in which one can waste time. I believe most relationships fail because neither the woman or the guy realize how small small talk really is and that it’s not something to base your courtship. Let me state a difference here: small talk is not Seinfeld talk. They’re two separate categories. Seinfeld talk is the sum of your observations used in an exercise of your wit. Bullshit talk consists of descriptions and no opinions (unless you count “Yeah, that’s cool. Oh, really? Awesome. Me too!” as opinions).

I’m with you here, cousin.

And it was all this, that led me to post my wish that I was gay - and my various troubles connecting with women.

It’s “I were”. Like my future Asimov-inspired novel, “I, Werewolf”. …

[tdn]

@The Hook

Small talk is horrible. It is the worst way in which one can waste time. I believe most relationships fail because neither the woman or the guy realize how small small talk really is and that it’s not something to base your courtship.

This is a joke, right? Please tell me you’re joking. When will you stop joking? Will it be soon?

Small talk is social lubricant. It fills the gaps with banter until more profound things can be said. It allows people to get a feel for each others opinions and comfort levels before diving head-first into the weightiest debates of our day.

If a random stranger approached me, I’d be far more comfortable if he or she began with “So, how about those Red Sox?” rather than “ABORTION IS MURDER!” But maybe that’s just me.

[The_Hook]

@tdn

This is a joke, right? Please tell me you’re joking. When will you stop joking? Will it be soon?

Sometimes, not even I know.

If a random stranger approached me, I’d be far more comfortable if he or she began with “So, how about those Red Sox?” rather than “ABORTION IS MURDER!” But maybe that’s just me.

This one of the things I don’t get. I’ll never do and I know that’s my problem, but I do geniunely believe that a lot of people get into a relationship based on false pretenses. Most women complain about how men treat them or how they boyfriends don’t show them enough affection without ever realizing that those men and those boyfriends never really did say they liked them or that they loved them, only that they agreed to go shopping and listen to how their jeans don’t fit the way they would like them to. It’s more an issue of perception from both parties. It’s somewhere along the lines of people taking silence as a “yes” or “no”, regardless of what a person is really thinking. I’ll say it like this: small talk involves a lot of speaking without actually saying anything and yet the people who engage in it tend to fill in those gaps (where “meaningful dialogue” should be) by themselves based on their own perceptions and desires.

But I know small talk is an essential tool in society and that’s how things “work”. Maybe I’m not very social because of this very reason:

So, how about those Red Sox?

Me: What about them?

~Thought Processes: Should I know something about the Red Sox? Did something of importance happened to the Red Sox? Does he mean to know if I like the Red Sox, if I watched their latest game, or if I’m aware of an upcoming event involving the Red Sox? What are “sox” anyway? Could it be that in the old days their uniforms had red socks and they wrote “sox” so that it would look cool? Are “sox” some kind of native tribe? Why am I even thinking this? I don’t like baseball. Wait… why is he talking to me? I don’t even know him!

Somehow, I haven’t figured it out yet, people read all that and slowly step away. I don’t know. I guess it’s that Bambino curse.

:dubious:

Yes.

[Miller]

@SolGrundy

I think this is the point when I’m supposed to jump in and say, “hands off, bitch!” but I’m depressed at the idea that Miller is only into me because I know who Exar Kun is.

Plus, I don’t have the heart to admit to him that I’ve been faking all my Star Wars knowledge, and those weird grunting sounds I made during sex weren’t, in fact, genuine Huttese.

That’s okay. I still love you for the way you scream MST3K quotes when you climax.

[sub]McCloud![/sub]

[Jillyvn]

Coming into the debate late…

That being said.

I did not get along with women my age when I was in University when I was your age and I’m female.

Have you considered looking outside your age group?

When I was 23 ish, I had a great friendship with an 18 yr old attractive young mand, which developed into a sexual encounter. The flirting was fun, but the sex not so good. Don’t let my story turn you off. If you can handle yourself in the bedroom, an older woman who is much more comfortable with her sexuality might be your ticket, especially if you can converse intelligently with her before and after.

The best sex I’ve had has been with a guy I’ve been more myself with than even my female friends, and that has been decidedly not stereotypically female (not that I buy stereotypes). It’s liberated my sex life being able to admit to my partners and male friends that, yes, occasionally I can enjoy watching men do stupid things on grass in an attempt to win a trophy, I like watching porn and I’m grateful for the occasional invite to the strippers. This seems to have come with growing up a bit.

• R

[Jillyvn]

Meant to add, not that two men getting it on isn’t great to watch too, so if you do discover you’re bisexual, go with it

[wolfstu]

Now that this seems to have pretty well runs its course, may I suggest a lighthearted look at the issue to liven things up?

Can You Believe I’m Single?

[tdn]

@The Hook

Sometimes, not even I know.

My long lost brother!

This one of the things I don’t get. I’ll never do and I know that’s my problem, but I do geniunely believe that a lot of people get into a relationship based on false pretenses. Most women complain about how men treat them or how they boyfriends don’t show them enough affection without ever realizing that those men and those boyfriends never really did say they liked them or that they loved them, only that they agreed to go shopping and listen to how their jeans don’t fit the way they would like them to.

I’ve read this six times and I still don’t know what it means. Are you saying that most divorces and abusive relationships are the fault of someone saying “Gee, this sheep dip is mighty tasty”? In what way is a comment on a snack food a false pretense?

[The_Hook]

@tdn

I’ve read this six times and I still don’t know what it means. Are you saying that most divorces and abusive relationships are the fault of someone saying “Gee, this sheep dip is mighty tasty”? In what way is a comment on a snack food a false pretense?

Yes, a common occurrance in my message board voyages. It seems I fall under the Bong category, but am rescued by some of my Kung-Fu Master skills. Wait… I’m bonging once more.

I meant to stick within the context of the thread. I believe most unhappy boyfriend-girlfriend relationships, in an immature time frame (the college years), are due to a lack of real feelings which is compensated by an absurd amount of triviality in its many forms (including, but not limited to, small talk). It’s okay when both the guy and the girl are just looking for fun. However, many times one of them (most often than not the girl) will want to get serious, or think the relationship already is, but isn’t mature enough to see there is no special bond holding them together.

Serious, for the sake of my argument, will mean the kind of relationship were a couple is inseparable and no matter how many limbs or money they lose, they stick together.

While you may see I’ve been speaking about immaturity, this “small talk” business is a sign of it when speaking of supposed “next level” relationships, and it hurts a couple when real issues (the heart of the matter, the crux) are not addressed, and it’s these issues that build the kind of relationship that seems most desirable: a real one. People engage in petty discussions and arguments instead of dealing with what’s really bothering them in a mature way mostly because they don’t know how else to do it. Too much triviality in one person’s vocabulary will do that to them.

And another reason why it might be cumbersome is that which Argent Towers described. Dating and courtships have become systems, are now automatized. It’s a process that doesn’t provide room for change. You begin with a “Hello, can I buy you a drink?” and proceed with the introductory discourse that you’ve heard a thousand times, then look for clues, make your “move”, etc. How about variety? The problem is, when you change any of the traditional steps and make them your own, most of the time you’ll freak everyone out (unless you’re Matt Damon in “Good Will Hunting”, because he’s cuter than you). It’s something that limits you and it can become exasperating. I think a lot of people may be with me on this, seeing as everyone comes to a point where “I’m tired of dating!” is their new “Hello”

Maybe that’s what growing up is. But what do you do when you’re the grown up but you’re stuck in a 12-year-old’s body and you’re actually 18?

[tdn]

Well, I hope when you grow older you’ll realize that not every sentence in a relationship has to be about the deepest of things. And that just because a greeting might start out with small talk doesn’t mean that a couple will never learn to discuss deeper issues. I’m not sure where you got your ideas, but, with all due respect, they’re pretty wonky.

Most normal people are able to converse on a number of different levels, from the intensely meaningful to the downright silly. And most people are able to shift from one level to another with relative ease. Just because a woman might start a relationship with you by saying “Gee, this bar is smoky” doesn’t automatically mean that she has nothing of value to say. Nor does it mean that she is incapable of a mature relationship. It might just be her way of saying hello. And it might mean that the bar is, in fact, smoky.

In fact, if the first thing a woman says to you is how her deep love for you is the key to understanding the Grand Unified Theory of the Universe, you might want to consider getting away from her ASAP. She’s going to be trouble.

Hopefully when you get a little more experience, you’ll come to understand the truth of what I’m saying. And hopefully, the best relationship you’ll ever find yourself in might just start with “Great band, eh?”

Anyway, I probably won’t be able to respond to this thread anymore because I’m leaving the SDMB. For a week.

[Telperien]

@Argent Towers

Basically I don’t think anyone in college gives a shit what a guy wears. Everyone just rolls out of bed and throws on whatever clothes are clean. I think high school guys are better dressed than college guys.

Yes. Their pants tend to fit, for one thing, rather than being roomy enough for all their friends.

A woman about my age (mid-twenties) would probably be more inclined to have a sexual relationship with you, AT, than a girl your age. (God, I feel old now.) If you can get around these women, that’s the route I’d advise you to take. Now that I’m old enough that someone who’s noticeably younger than I am isn’t automatic jailbait, I spend a lot of time speculating about guys your age. However, I attend college and work at the same university I attend, so there are a lot of guys there to speculate about.

The girls are kind of intimidating, though.

[Argent_Towers]

Thanks. I take that as a compliment. I also happen to agree with you. It would be way cool for me to have a girlfriend who was older than my dad’s girlfriend (she’s 26.)

[Telperien]

@Argent Towers

Thanks. I take that as a compliment. I also happen to agree with you. It would be way cool for me to have a girlfriend who was older than my dad’s girlfriend (she’s 26.)

I’m almost old enough for you, then. That would be cool, yeah. It would amuse the hell out of me in that situation.

And you’re welcome. That’s how I meant it.