Evil Dead Mafia Forbidden Thread - The Cabin in the Woods

[Blaster_Master]

It works in open setups, but sometimes games are more fun in a closed setup. For instance, my role in this game totally wouldn’t have worked at all if it were open.

I do have a simple solution though; if you post your PM, you will be assigned a new role at the whim of the moderator that is appropriate for the impact of the infraction. Lots of fun, but would probably make some people upset. OTOH, I think a better way to manage it is through incentives similar to the whole shoe incident. Of course, there’s plenty of more creative ways to apply incentive besides removing powers, but that depends on the specifics of the role.

[Pleonast]

Well, I have a strong distaste for post restrictions, so I tend to look for solutions that don’t involve them. But that’s why it’s fun to have different people play moderator.

[Pleonast]

Well, with that last revelation, I’m fairly certain brewha is the last Deadite. He’s burning the mostly dead to preserve his own life. They better lynch him for real Tomorrow.

[Natlaw]

@Ro0sh

And speaking of which- Why haven’t the dead people talked more? I’m suprised that the dead scum have been so passive. They really haven’t taken advantage of trying to sow chaos or ANYTHING by spewing verbal crap into a thread like this. It’s one of the reasons I’d expect the Days and Nights to be diff. threads, because teh whole point of talking scum is spew crap and fill up the page with milk solicitations and the like. Much like Jsexton’s final comments. It’s a good head twist.

Well, early it wasn’t maybe that good an idea, just because there is a chance they might make a slip. But they definitely should be trying something now.
There definitely are down sides for town, just take a look at the Super!Smash!Bros! game Day Two, where special ed is a known scum mason still alive and kicking.

If brewha had a role PM, the role he made up isn’t that bad, since it gives a solution for the mostly dead. The bad part is the title though: some holy man VS a Religious Figure Having a Crisis of Faith?
If brewha is scum, I’m wondering if he can turn them in a lynch block (using the parts to survive), and now I see brewha actually claimed that too.

[Blaster_Master]

@Pleonast

Well, I have a strong distaste for post restrictions, so I tend to look for solutions that don’t involve them. But that’s why it’s fun to have different people play moderator.

I think restrictions can be fun if done well. The real thing that bothers me is, for instance, that MHaye’s claim was just God awful, poorly explained, and poorly timed, but people believed him because his role PM looked good. What I’d fear is that someone can play awful, their actions can result in bad stuff for town, and when confronted, they can post an honest PM and potentially avoid a lynch that way rather than argue their way out of it. For me, it goes back to the town being lazy except, instead of depending on a power role to save them they’re depending on an a player’s inability to duplicate the moderator’s style; it’s meta-gaming.

Of course, I think that restrictions (other than perhaps fun interesting role-related ones ala the Ventriloquist in Batman) of not being able to post role PMs can potentially limit gameplay. For the game that I’ve been making up in the back of my head, I’ve come up with other ways to mitigate it, and I think it will probably make it more interesting. So, for instance, if I want to prevent a specific person from posting their PM, I might include some information that appears innocuous but is valuable to someone else in a way that hurts them.

Of course, I don’t really want to give away the ideas I’ve come up with for my potential future game (since it would be closed), but an example might be how NAF was a dog in this game, and a particular scum may, knowing that he’s a dog, be afforded a tool to avoid being found out (like a dog treat, or whatever) such that, without posting the role PM, that person is able to be investigated, but after that part of the claim is revealed, he’d be immune; but since the dog aspect seems innocuous, no one could really be sure which parts of role PMs would and would not be safe. Another example might be that there’s an otherwise normal person, but he has a vendetta against someone and, upon learning his name, he attacks or blocks him or something. So, it wouldn’t be a restriction, per se, but it would certainly affect risk factor.

Now, if you’re scared, for the game I’m planning, I don’t think I’d do anything mean like that just to keep claims down, but I had become aware that some game mechanics could be abused in ways that they shouldn’t be and/or go against the flavor of a role. Then again, all of my ideas are still in the “oh, it would be neat to use a role like that combined with a role like that”, so who knows.

[storyteller0910]

@Blaster_Master

Eh, this is why, as much as I’d like to allow players to quote PMs, it ruins a lot of the fun. Making a successful role claim is much less about coming up with a compatible and believable power, and more about how convincing your role PM can be. You could come up with a thoroughly convincing role that, were PMs not allowed, would work, but something silly like a line of dashes (that, for all we know, could easily have just been forgotten by storyteller) ruins it. It’s akin to the problem of vanilla hand-shaking and it sort of spoils some of the fun of the game.

I have a new plan to solve this, if I moderate again. I find it very unfun myself.

[sachertorte]

Dead scum not talking is the correct move. Talking produces data. Data helps town. Scum could try and manipulate Town into doing what they want, but it is unlikely that Town will do what scum want them to do and more likely that scum will say something that they didn’t want. At best, for scum, it is a wash, at worst, they give up stuff. Better to stay silent.

I don’t have as bad of a PM problem since I write bland role PMs. Just the facts, nothing fancy.

[NAF1138]

@sachertorte

Dead scum not talking is the correct move. Talking produces data. Data helps town. Scum could try and manipulate Town into doing what they want, but it is unlikely that Town will do what scum want them to do and more likely that scum will say something that they didn’t want. At best, for scum, it is a wash, at worst, they give up stuff. Better to stay silent.

I disagree, it just has to be done well. Talking can be dangerous, but it can also totally shut down the towns ability to get anything done. Imagine 5 peekercpa’s posting nonsense to the game 50 times a day each. It would shut the game down for town. Maybe not a fun way to play if you are a townie, but probalby a winning play for scum.

[Blaster_Master]

@sachertorte

Dead scum not talking is the correct move. Talking produces data. Data helps town. Scum could try and manipulate Town into doing what they want, but it is unlikely that Town will do what scum want them to do and more likely that scum will say something that they didn’t want. At best, for scum, it is a wash, at worst, they give up stuff. Better to stay silent.

I don’t have as bad of a PM problem since I write bland role PMs. Just the facts, nothing fancy.

I disagree. Some of my most successful work as scum was when people were pretty darn sure I was scum (which, granted isn’t the same as being mod-confirmed scum) and I was so loud that they didn’t have a choice but to acknowledge what I said. I think like what JSexton did is a good example, the fact that it ultimately didn’t work in convincing them doesn’t mean it didn’t still have a small positive effect for scum. If he convinced them he didn’t have communication, then they start having all kinds of false premises for any logic they base on it; if he failed to convince them, then they’re just back at assuming he was communicating with them the whole time. Either way, he caused some distraction and it didn’t offer any useful information to town.

Now, I’m not saying they need to come out and give opinions on who to lynch, since it’s obviously WIFOM, but providing noise and distraction is almost always a benefit to the scum. Besides, data isn’t always useful. If I tell you it’s 25 degrees outside right now, but you’re trying to figure out if it’s going to snow next Tuesday, how useful is that? It SEEMS useful on the surface, because it’s related to the weather, but it provides no tangible predictive value about whether it’s going to snow on Tuesday or not.

So sure, pointlessly yammering and trying to sway the town into or away from voting may not be good; but well thought out responses still have some potential, even if it’s very small.

[Blaster_Master]

@NAF1138

I disagree, it just has to be done well. Talking can be dangerous, but it can also totally shut down the towns ability to get anything done. Imagine 5 peekercpa’s posting nonsense to the game 50 times a day each. It would shut the game down for town. Maybe not a fun way to play if you are a townie, but probalby a winning play for scum.

Heh, I’d considered that in my response, but it is a little bit unsportsmanlike. I think posting utter garbage would be silly, but as long as you’re making posts at least semi-relevant to the game. Hell, I’d totally continue evaluating stuff, and agreeing and disagreeing with people as if I was still in the game. Was my seemingly valid reasoning useful? Maybe it is and people will discount it because it came from scum.

[sachertorte]

@NAF1138

I disagree, it just has to be done well. Talking can be dangerous, but it can also totally shut down the towns ability to get anything done. Imagine 5 peekercpa’s posting nonsense to the game 50 times a day each. It would shut the game down for town. Maybe not a fun way to play if you are a townie, but probalby a winning play for scum.

Well if Scum just wants to spam the game then what fun is that? Town would just skip the postings and it would merely be a nuisance, not effective. I don’t think it would be a winning play at all. It would be annoying and frustrating and remarkably unfun. Bleh, I would really hate to see that happen in any game.

[NAF1138]

@sachertorte

Well if Scum just wants to spam the game then what fun is that? Town would just skip the postings and it would merely be a nuisance, not effective. I don’t think it would be a winning play at all. It would be annoying and frustrating and remarkably unfun. Bleh, I would really hate to see that happen in any game.

Well so would I, but I won’t design a game where the dead can talk either.

Somewhere between what BlaM said, and what I said is a winning strategy for dead talk though.

[dotchan]

Nuts, I’ve been vaporized.

Thanks for the shoutout there, Roosh. And you’re right–you KNOW the Town is playing bad when dotchan thinks you’re stupid! (Good God, did they learn NOTHING from the debacle that was “Cookies forgot to capitalize Total Lost’s name”?)

As far as PMs go, I publish ALL of the PMs in my game setups (but then again, all of my setups are either Open or Semi-Open) AND forbid quoting any PMs coming from me. While setting up the Three Kingdoms game, I also decided to have my killing parties submit their own methods of grisly murder and told the players so. I hate meta-gaming. The mod is only supposed to be there to provide vote counts and opening/closing color, and isn’t supposed to be analyzed like another player (except, obviously, in Bastard games).

[JSexton]

Hi guys!

[NAF1138]

Sup JSexton? Have fun?

[JSexton]

Had a blast! Terrific game.

Um, no hard feelings, blam?

[JSexton]

@sachertorte

Speaking of bad arguments.
Town had sunk to a new low. The Cookies “total lost” saga was bad. But the MHaye “Hal is an Alpha Redshirt” is even worse. Is Hal even paying attention to this game at all? He certainly isn’t paying attention to his own words.
Deep down I’m hoping this is a scum ploy, that MHaye and Hal are going to distract the town with an “honest mistake.” Otherwise, I think I’ll cry.

You’re saying Hal claimed Alpha? I’d like a link, cause I scoured the threads looking for it. Hal didn’t have all that many posts.

[JSexton]

@sachertorte

To take Pleonast’s point further, JSexton should know that. Or rather, JSexton does know that and is purposefully ignoring it to go after amrussell who seems to be the only player looking at motivations right now. Gee, who would do such a thing?

Yeah, I know. Thing is, at that point in the game we were in a really deep hole. Most of the remaining town were scattered around the place. Not amrussel, though. That magnificent bastard was spot on in every single post. I take my hat off to him, as he posted the most consistently accurate analysis I’ve ever seen in mafia.

But we couldn’t spare a nightkill on him, as we needed those to kill confirmed players. I knew he wasn’t a mason, since he outed Hockey Monkey. That meant he was lynchable, and I had to go for it. Failed spectacularly.

[JSexton]

@sachertorte

I mostly agree. But…

I don’t think Masons communicating is an adequate counterbalance. Masons don’t need to coordinate much of anything. Its a nice perk, but it isn’t like Masons can set a trap for scum by being able to talk during the Day.

Scum however can evolve elaborate schemes. Furthermore, a more seasoned player can directly tell other scum what to do. Sure, they could do the same thing at night, but Daytalking enables real-time coordination to the situations. That is, scum #2 and #3 are voting for #1. The plan: 1 will claim and 2 and 3 will jump off the wagon. #2 will vote for X and #3 will vote for Y.
This type of coordination can’t happen during the night for the next Day.

Scum daytalking is a two-edged sword. Yes, you can coach and plan, but in the long run, you create artificiality in their words. I’m convinced that’s what sunk Millit.

[MHaye]

@sachertorte

MHaye’s acceptance of Hal Briston’s charge against him regarding knowing that Hal Briston is an Alpha has me puzzled. MHaye states that he is always busy rereading the thread. If this is the case, then he should have come across Hal Briston’s Alpha claim by now. The conclusion I’m reaching is that MHaye is not re-reading the thread as he states he is. That would be an indicator that MHaye is scum.

The way I see it, is if MHaye were town, he would have brought up the discrepancy by now. My main problem with this thesis is that no one has pointed out the error. Surely someone is re-reading things?

Sach, I did a search of Hal’s posts after he said that to find out why I thought he was Alpha. You can be sure that if I had found it, it would have been up in large font, followed by a vote for Hal for lying.

Remember where it is?