Experience quitting drinking?

In My Humble Opinion
41

I just read through the thread today and I’m wondering what it is about the Moderate drinking program that you are now on that makes it different from the limits that you had set for yourself in the past.

For some reason I don’t have any problem with alcohol, I can drink socially and then not touch it for months at a time, but I have a real problem with cigarettes. I quit for years then smoke for years, and when I smoke - I smoke voraciously. One of the things that has bothered me is my inability to moderate my smoking. I’m either on them - or off them. I wish I could limit myself to just a few a day. I’ve tried to limit myself but I always seem to break my limits, quickly.

Any tips from the moderate drinking program that I might find useful?

42

My mom was an alcoholic back when I was really little, I don’t remember any of it, but my dad talked a bit about it after she died this past March, not because of alcohol but from complications due to lung cancer, namely two massive heart attacks.

ANYWAY, one day she just decided not to drink anymore and she didn’t. There was a period of about 3 years where the whole family went to around 5 weddings and 6 funerals and after that period I asked my mom if she felt uncomfortable when everyone else around her was doing the champagne toasting thing and if she ever had a desire to toss one back.

She said that she didn’t feel uncomforatble and that while she did occasionally feel like having a drink, the urge was never that strong so she didn’t.

Until of course, she retired and moved up to Bath, Maine. I was shocked, SHOCKED!!! to find a very well stocked liquor cabinet and about 15 bottles of wine and it was very uncomforatble for me to see my mom with a beer or glass of wine etc.

That being said, I went on a 6 month drunk back in 1992. I was about 2 1/2 weeks away from being called upfrom Triple A and becoming a professional drunk, but it came down to either being a drunk or being in my band and I chose my band.

I didn;t touch any booze for 8 months and it was tough because my bandmates and I would sit around after gigs and they would be tossing back beers left and right, so the tempataions were there, but I got thru it.

As Ozzy Osborne said, “I’m not perfect, I fall off the wagon, but i get back up and get back on and try again.”

43

A little post here to register my response to Dinsdale’s one just above.
I dunno how to say this, but I think it’s good if he can drink moderately. I choose not to, and that makes me happy, but I’m putting this post up so anyone reading can understand that a lot of folks who don’t drink, or who quit, are not “true believers”.

I guess what I’m trying to nip in the bud is the (likely) scolding he will get from a lot of “all or nothing” types. I too dislike the alcoholism as a disease theory, and it really pisses me off when I encounter it. People who espouse that view will often treat others (Drinkers, but they’re others too!) like they are mentally ill. It doesn’t win a lot of points with me, and overall I think it’s a very patronizing attitude.

Glad to hear all is well Dinsdale! I thought about e-mailing you, but never followed through.

44

Thanks for the positive thoughts, folks!

Torus - about MM: I’m far from an expert, being relatively new to the “system.” But right now, I think I benefit from what I perceive as external support.

When I made self-imposed guidelines, they were based on little more than my best guess at the time, dependant on whatever psychological/emotional factors I was perceiving at the moment. As things changed, it was easy to convince myself that I could change the rules. And, since I was only answering to myself, I could easily forgive any transgressions. Ain’t I a nice guy in that respect? :wink:

MM provides a set of “guidelines.” Such as, start off with 30 days of abstinence, no more than 14 drinks per week, no more than 4 drinks per day, no faster than one drink per 30 minutes, abstain either Friday or Saturday, etc…

Each member decides whether they follow all of them. These guidelines are supposedly based on some body of empirical study, and the experiences of a larger number of people than just me. Moreover, the numerical rules are only part of the system. A vital part of MM involves introspection as to why you drink, what the repercussions are, and where you want to go with your life.

I don’t know what it is about me, but for some reason I find it easier to comply with reasonable rules stated by an external source, than applying my personal viewpoints to every situation. I am too susceptible to identifying exceptions, changed variables, etc.

Moreover, the entire system of drinking moderately appeals to me more than abstaining. I know I will be able to drink. I just have to be responsible in how I do it. For example, Wednesday my daughter graduated from 8th grade. My wife and I shared a beer before the ceremony (her parents were coming over for dinner - we needed SOME numbing.) Then afterwards, I had another as we walked the dog. Last night we had a new concrete driveway poured. We were sitting out front watching it dry (exciting life I lead, huh?) and my wife and her friend cracked a really good pinot noir. I would have loved a glass, but I knew tonight I was going out to dinner and a movie with friends. If I wanted to have a couple tonight, I had to abstain yesterday.

Or if I am working in the yard, I don’t crack my first beer at noon and keep going til I run out. I know I will only allow myself 4. So I wait until I am nearly done, have a couple before dinner, maybe one with dinner, and one after. I am able to drink - I just have to force myself to wait a little while before starting.

I wish I didn’t have to think and plan so much about it - but given my past, I was going to be thinking and planning A LOT if I tried complete abstinence. And in the past I did a lot of planning about when I could get away with drinking as much as I could.

On occasions in recent weeks when I have had my max of 4, I felt I had a pleasant buzz going, yet was able to participate fully in the conversation instead of chasing the buzz until I became a slurring drunk as had been my wont in the past.

I could go on and on, but anyone who is interested, we can do it privately. There is (IMO) a lot of good info at the MM site. And I’ve just started reading what impresses me as a good book called Moderate Drinking by Audrey Kishline. (As I understand it, AK, the founder of MM, unfortunately was unable to maintain moderation, and was responsible for a fatal alcohol-related auto accident. But, I do not believe her personal transgression impugns the entire system.)

Personally, I appreciate a book that has the following language on page one of the foreword:

Drinking irresponsibly (like drinking moderately) involves the intention to do so. There is no force alien to oneself responsible for one’s behavior.

Plus, the MMers have a message board, which gives me a place in addition to the SDMB where I can waste time while at work!

45

I quit drinking the same time I quit everything else.

I didn’t sleep for about 2 weeks. I couldn’t eat. I smoked like a fiend. I was constipated. Massive headaches, anxiety…

And I was completey obsessed with using something…

Most of the symptoms faded after a couple of weeks, the obsession lasted nearly 9 months.

46

I think the reason that a lot of people have a problem with the “disease” concept of alcoholism is because they are thinking of it as a simple physical disease such as diabetes or the like. Alcoholism manifests itself with both physical and mental symptoms. There is the physical component of the actual addiction to alcohol, with withdrawal symptoms when intake is stopped.

However, if it were simply a physical disease, then stopping drinking would solve the problem, and for most alcoholics, it doesn’t. There is a whole slew of mental and behavioral problems that go along with the addiction, irrational thinking and behavior, and that is what programs like AA are designed to treat. It’s basically group therapy but run by fellow sufferers rather than professionals.

I know a lot of AA-ers can get sort of evangelical about that program, but that really goes against the principle of “attraction rather than promotion” we should follow, so please don’t take what those folks say as the word of AA itself. I am personally a believer in AA, because it is absolutely what works for me and pretty much everyone I know who has a drinking problem. The AA Big Book itself says that AA is not for everyone, but it has been historically the most effective treatment, and that’s why it is “prescribed” so often.

Dinsdale, I sincerely hope that MM works for you, and I’m looking forward to hearing about your experiences. The MM program strikes me as problematic, because frankly, in my experience, people who need help in controlling their drinking are usually alcoholics and should probably stop altogether. But, I can’t pass judgment on its effectiveness because I don’t know anyone who’s tried it. I just know that it wouldn’t work for me because moderate drinking is simply impossible for me. But I also know that not everyone who drinks too much is an alcoholic.

47

Hey, Geobabe. Thanks for the support.

I’m sure there are some folks who need AA or some other abstinence program, and others for whom MM will work.

I guess I wouldn’t want to say that there is NO ONE for whom their drinking could be considered a disease process. I’m not an expert in such things and am not particularly interested in becoming one. But I strongly disagree with your statement that “people who need help in controlling their behavior are usually alcoholics.”

I guess I would disagree with the one-size-fits-all designation of alcoholism. IME, tests to determine whether you are an alcoholic set a pretty low standard, and include a lot of behavior I think might well be voluntary. If I am a heavy drinker, who has never lost a job, been divorced, never had ETOH-related health problems, and never faced legal implications related to my drinking, I’m not sure I require exactly the same treatment - complete abstinence - as some homeless, unemployed cirrhotic person.

I’m aware that there are differing opinions among the experts on this - and I’m not particularly interested in turning this into a GD. But realize that for every study you present arguing alcoholism is a disease, I could present one to supporting a contrary position. Not that we should defer entirely to the APA, but they no longer refers to “alcoholism” as a valid disease - instead they classify either alcohol abuse or alcohol dependence.

Also, given my personality, I feel more appreciation for a system such as MM which is based on the premise that I am responsible for my choices and their implications. Personally, I resist attributing my shortcomings to a disease which is beyond my control. I think that “disease diagnosis” undesirably minimizes the voluntary element of excessive drinking or substance use. Of course, I guess I often come across as a hardass who favors holding people pretty strictly accountable for their choices and resulting actions and consequences.

My conclusion is that it is a great thing that there are different flavors of support for people of varying tastes. Personally, I am happier now enjoying moderate drinking than I would be if I were abstaining. I feel more in control of this aspect of my life than I have been in the past. Yes, there is the possibility that I will slip up some time and exceed my self-imposed limits. But I see total abstinence as nothing more than a self-imposed limit of 0. And in my mind - given what I know of my personal nature - that extreme limit might even be easier to break than a moderate one.

(Yes, I am aware AA, Rational Recovery, and other abstience programs involve FAR MORE than simply abstinence. Same way MM involves more than record-keeping. I’m not particularly interested in getting into this debate. Right now I’d rather direct my energy towards controlling my drinking instead of debating competing treatment/support theories.)

48

That’s not what I said. I said “people who need help controlling their drinking are usually alcoholics.” That’s because the primary symptom of alcoholism is an inability to control the quantity of alcohol one puts into one’s body. It’s the hallmark of any kind of addiction. If you can control your drinking, then you’re probably not an alcoholic. I simply expressed my concern that someone who has an inability to control their drinking on their own might have a bigger problem than they think. I’m not trying to make that decision for you, simply giving my take on it.

If you think that AA tells people that they’re not responsible for their behavior, then you haven’t read beyond the first step. Again, not trying to criticize or sell you on AA, just trying to clear up some misconceptions. If you read into the later steps, 4 through 7 are for addressing your own issues; resentments, fear and so forth. In 8 and 9, you look for where your behavior has affected others and address that. There really is a very strong emphasis on taking responsibility for your own actions. There are quite a few people who come into AA, see “I’m powerless over alcohol and my life is unmanageable” as an excuse for not growing up and getting better, but those people are not working the AA program. And those people usually end up getting drunk again, IME.

The “disease diagnosis” I see as being no different than a diagnosis of, say, diabetes. You’re told by your doctor that you have this condition and given specific things that you can do to control it. You are responsible for maintaining your own treatment program. The doctor isn’t going to come to your house and test your blood sugar or give you your insulin injection. Same with alcoholism. You (the generic “you”, not you specifically) are responsible for your own treatment, and that includes deciding whether AA or some other program is what you need. You have to get yourself to meetings, do the steps, do whatever else is prescribed within that program.

I’m also not interested in starting a debate. I just see a lot of people have wrong ideas about how AA works, and feel I should make an effort to correct those misconceptions. And I want to emphasize again that I’m not trying to tell you, Dinsdale (or anyone else, for that matter), that you need AA or are an alcoholic. I have suggested AA to people before, but I always tell them that they need to make the decision for themselves whether it is right for them.

49

I’ve been sober for over nine years now.

Basically, I was ordered by the Navy to quit drinking, or else, so I had to go to AA at least 4 times a week. I did that for quite a while, and stayed abstinent.

I don’t go to meetings anymore because I can’t find a non-smoking meeting that isn’t affiliated with a rehab center. It’s not that I’m opposed to rehabs, it’s just that I’ve found those meetings to be long on psychotherapy and short on actual recovery. There is a meeting in Harrisburg that I loved that I will probably go back to.

I am still completely abstinent from alcohol, which is a conscious decision. I probably could go back to moderate drinking, but I’ve decided that I’m just as happy without alcohol as I was with it. Fortunately, I’m comfortable being around it in social situations so that I don’t have to avoid it entirely.

As for people’s questions, I’ve found that most people just don’t care that I don’t drink. I usually walk around parties with a glass in my hand, too, and no one cares if the glass has alcohol or not.

Robin

50

Just thought I’d give you all a heads up - six weeks of moderate drinking and things seem to be going pretty well. I have not had more than 4 drinks on any one day, and have not drunk more than 2 days in a row. Only one week did I have my weekly max of 14. The next highest were 11 and 10.

In fact, last weekend we were at a dinner party, and when we got ready to leave more than one person observed that I should drive because I had had much less to drink than my wife. Can’t remember THAT ever happening before! So I helped the missus pick her jaw up off the floor, and bundled her into the car.

Also on the self improvement front, I’ve been trying to lose weight since early April from a personal high of 211#. Have been under 200# - around 198# - for the past 3 weeks. Pretty soon I’ll have to figure that is not an anomaly. Wonder how low I’ll go?

Nice to be succeeding at a couple of things. Gives me something to look favorably towards when faced with all my many other inadequacies!

51

Thanks for the update. I was thinking about reviving the thread to see how it’s going.

Has your reduction in drinking improved other things on the homefront? I apologize if my question is out of line, but I’ve read some of your earlier posts about your marriage and I was wondering how inter-related things were.

There is, of course, the possibility that I am violating all kinds of rules of civilized conduct by bringing up your marriage in this thread. If I’m being an ass, feel free to let me know.

52

All is not Ozzie and Harrietish, but we seem to be getting along slightly better than the Israelis and the Palestinians. Thanks for asking.

For your entertainment:

A couple of weeks ago we were at a party ay my sister’s house. My brother in law asks me if I want to golf at his club on July X. I say sure. He asks if I need to check the date out with work or anything. I say, no need.

Flash forward a couple of hours to where folk are getting food in the kitchen. Showing what a reasonable and responsible hubby I am, always keeping her up-to-date on my schedule, I inform my wife, “BTW, I’m golfing w/ BIL on July X.”

She responds something along the lines of, “Like hell you are.”

I am dumbfounded, and the room is silent - until my lovely 14-yr-old gently says, “Dad, you idiot! That’s mom’s birthday.”

Try putting a positive spin on THAT one!

53

There is a little misinformation there, comcerning the “spokesperson” for Moderation Management. She was Audrey Kishline, the founder of MM who had written a very controversial book on it years ago. Last year, after years of falling off the wagon very hard, she got herself good and drunk, drove the wrong way onto a freeway, and she plowed head-on into a truck. As is often the case with a drunk driver, she was able to walk away with minor injuries, while the driver of the other vehicle and his young son were killed upon impact. Shortly before this accident, she had posted to her own website that MM didn’t work for her and she needed to remain completely abstinent. Too bad she didn’t heed her own words before the accident.

As a substance abuse therapist and a recovering alcoholic/addict myself (18 years sober this month), I understand the thinking and desire to want to be a “normal drinker.” I discovered several of my clients wanting to use her “moderation method” rather than stay completely sober. It didn’t work for any of them for any prolonged period of time either.

Substance abuse of any kind takes on many faces. Some people drink or use daily to the point of being totally screwed up. Some people can “control” it for long periods, then nupredictably fall off the edge of the earth when they least expect it. Some binge periodically, then don’t drink or use at all for weeks or even months. Years ago, I had one client who drank only twice a year, and he believed that automatically precluded him from the alcoholism brotherhood. After I completed his assessment, I passed his wife on the walkway as she came in to serve him with divorce papers. She validated his “twice yearly” story, but she clarified something for me: the problem was, every time he drank, he brought heaps of trouble upon himself, and by default, upon her as well.

Dinsdale, I applauded your initial effort to remain sober, then felt saddened to see you trying the grand experiment of “moderate drinking.” Of course, I wish you well in whatever you decide to do. But there are a few questions I encourage you to ask yourself at this point.

(1) What is my need to drink at all?

(2) What would have to happen to me for me to believe I really have an alcohol problem and need to stop?

(3) What am I willing to lose at this point because of my drinking?

(4) Do I believe that my recent ability to drink “in moderation” means I do not (did not) have an alcohol problem?

I must admit, it was heartening throughout this thread to see so many people share their own personal experiences about their recovery or perhaps their desire to pursue recovery. Like you, Dinsdale, I did not have any legal problems, lose a job or marriage, have any physical problems caused by my drinking, etc. But I did wake up one day and realize that alcohol had taken hostage of an important corner of my soul and was growing. My father (who, by the way, had always been gainfully employed, had a nice house, put us through private schools, never had a DUI and never missed a day of work in his life) had died of cirrhosis, never once believing he was an alcoholic. I made a conscious decision that I didn’t want to go that route. I have not had a drink since that day, I’m grateful to be able to say. And I don’t miss it at all.

Dinsdale, if you remain successful in what you are choosing to do at this time, more power to you. If not, please make the effort once more to remain abstinent. I have seen too many good people die who have tried to be social drinkers and could never quite pull it off. I would hate to hear that you were one of them My best to you.

54

I don’t think I ever suggested I did not and do not continue to have “an alcohol problem.”

But, I do not believe all such problems are identical, requiring the same remedies. Certainly there are some folk whose drinking, personalities, and life situations are of a sort that their best recourse is abstinence. However, I can’t think of too many bright lines or one-size-fits-all solutions that have appealed to me.

While Audrey Kishline may have founded MM, and wrote a book I believe has considerable value, I don’t believe her personal failure is an indictment of the entire system. I’m not aware of anyone who suggests MM is fail proof. Nor would any responsible person make such a claim for AA or any abstinence based program. Or do you wish to run down the personal shortcomings of various folk associated with such systems? (BTW LadyLion - the facts c/o AK’s accident and conviction are readily available, and differ in various subtle respects from what you present.)

You know what? I am far from perfect in many many respects. Very occasionally, I get up off my ass and try to improve myself. And I am very content with my personal choice in this area. iIcertainly am not going to devalue what I consider tremendous strides I have been making, simply because someone else might think I should have gone further.

I do not believe that moderate social drinking is in any way “a bad thing.” Nor do I believe that I need to totally deny myself this pleasurable activity because of my past excesses.

In the meantime, in the spirit of dispelling ignorance, I think it might be useful that folk who are concerned about their drinking understand that there are alternatives available other than abstinence programs. IMO - and many others’ - not everyone who drinks more than they should needs to completely abstain for the rest of their lives. YMMV.

55

Dinsdale, I continue to wish you nothing but progress in your endeavors. And I sincerely do hope that the path you are on right now continues to be a positive course of action for you. My post was an effort to share some of my own 18 years of sobriety, as well as some of my experience in the field of recovery. We obviously see things differently, but that is often what makes SDMB so very interesting and engaging.

Please take care.

56

Dinsdale, I continue to wish you nothing but progress in your endeavors. And I sincerely do hope that the path you are on right now continues to be a positive course of action for you. My post was an effort to share some of my own 18 years of sobriety, as well as some of my experience in the field of recovery. We obviously see things differently, but that is often what makes SDMB so very interesting and engaging.

Please take care.

57

Good luck and best wishes! Why don’t you drop back to the board with a situation report every 6 months or so?

58

I haven’t had a drink in going on 5 months. Some observations:

  1. I found stopping easy after finding it incredibly difficult for a number of years. Once I said “I am an alchoholic”, I couldn’t go back - how can I give myself permission to drink if I know that about myself? For years, I rationalized away my issues - I didn’t drink that much compared to people I knew had problems, it was a way to reward myself, etc., but once I crossed that line, I haven’t looked back.

  2. Once I stopped, a whole bunch of other things got better. I didn’t realize how much self-loathing went into rationalizing my drinking - some part of me knew I was pulling a number on myself and hated me for it. Also, I looked at my wife and our relationship better - when I was rationalizing drinking, I was more inclined to: a) look for her faults to make it easier for me to forgive myself my problem; b) allow myself to give in to my emotions and “lose it”, when patience was really called for. I drank for release, and couldn’t keep my emotions under control when I had mentally given myself permission to “hang loose”. Also, recovering from even a couple of drinks takes time and energy the next morning that I don’t have the time in my life to justify.

  3. Will I go back and try to drink moderately? As it stands now, I doubt it, but who can say? Life is much better without it, I already explained above that it doesn’t seem to make much sense, and frankly, the thought of drinking scares me. It sucks, because I love the feeling of being drunk, but the “long-term” me likes how I feel about myself without alcohol a whole lot more than the “short-term” me likes being drunk.

  4. Can someone who has a drinking problem drink moderately? Well, the answer is maybe - it all depends on whether you think you are an alchoholic and how you feel about yourself. If you don’t think you are an alchoholic, then maybe you can return to drinking moderately. For me, it turned out that the only way I could face my issues was to step up and state “I am an alchoholic” - even though my wife, a number of friends and others stated that they didn’t see my problem as anywhere near that bad. Once someone does take that step, though, I don’t see how they can process the concept of “yeah I can drink moderately”. The whole point to stating that you are an alchoholic is “no, you can’t - you’re an alchoholic”

Dinsdale - thank you for starting this thread. You appear to be participating in a honest dialogue about an important topic. I wish you continued luck as you explore what works for you. I hope sharing my experience contributes to this topic.

59

After being reminded of this thread from VDarlin’s thread, I was wondering how you’re doing, Dinsdale.

I hope everything is going fine.

60

Would have answered earlier but I was SO hung over this morning!

Just kidding!

Since 4/14/02 I have not had more than 4 drinks on any one day, or more than 14 in any week. I abstained for 33 days. Since then, my average has been a total of 9 drinks on 3 occasions per week. Most recently had 2 margaritas on Sunday with my wife - nothing since then.

It’s a continual effort, but I’m glad to say I don’t miss it all that much. Mainly, habit can be really ingrained. It is amazing how many situations arise when I realize I would previously have had a drink - or several - without even thinking.

The last couple of days I’ve been thinking that I really missed getting good and rip-roaring drunk. Just the kind of irresponsibility when you know you are tossing them down as fast and furious as possible. But I think there is little or no danger of my giving in to that thought. It is a thought, not an uncontrollable urge.

I find the MM guidelines very helpful. I put a lot of effort into planning my drinking - tho it requires less effort than before. For example, I will not drink more than 2 days in a row. So let’s say I have a beer tonight. If I know I am going out Sat, I can’t drink on Fri, because Sat would be the third day in a row.

Or since I limit myself to 4, I work on starting drinking later, drinking slower, drinking more NA in between, and stopping altogether and drinking NA when I hit my limit.

Sure, the MM guidelines may be arguable or somewhat arbitrary, but I found it useful to ingrain them - they provide very useful guides for me.

The crappy thing is reducing my drinking is not a panacea. Now instead of a drunk asshole, I’m simply a sober asshole. And I’m golfing like shit this year. Haven’t noticed any significant health benefits.

Thanks for asking.