Last week I turned 66; it was time to renew my license. The DMV duly took what information they needed, had me take an eye test, and had me pose for a new picture; then I shelled out the money for the renewal. Whereupon the clerk printed a temporary license ( no picture, of course; valid until the new regular license comes in the mail.)
What I’d like to know is: The California Vehicle Code apparently prohibits the possession of more than one license at a time. I would use the expired license (picture) only for identification purposes, but have the temporary license to show a cop who might stop me; does my possession of the expired license constitute a violation of the law?
I don’t see how it could… but I am not in California law enforcement.
My understanding and I am open to correction, is that together, the paper and the expired license constitute your license until you receive the renewed card. Last time I renewed a license, I seem to recall verbiage to the effect that neither the cut card nor the paperwork were sufficient on their own. So, I would assume no, as you still only have one valid license in your possession.
Years ago, I moved to another state. I got a drivers license in the new state, and they took my old license. My old license was a few weeks from expiration, so my home state sent me a new license a few weeks later. I kept both, so when I returned to my home state a couple of years later, I was all set.
My brother, about a year older than I, joined the Air Force in March 1968, shortly before his 20th birthday. He was stationed, at one point, at Offutt Air Force Base near Omaha. He was driving in Omaha and, for some reason, a cop stopped him. Gary showed his license.
“Excuse me, sir–this is a California driver’s license.”
Gary explained that, according to law, when someone with a still - valid California license joins the Service and that license expires, the license remains valid as long as the licensee is outside California and for 30 days after that person’s honorable discharge. That satisfied the Omaha cop.
IANAL but my buddy is and he says the law is that you can’t have multiple VALID licenses. Your expired license is no longer valid, so it’s not technically a license. No cop, or bank, in my experience, will accept it as a valid ID.
Me: “Hey, I’m still this guy, that’s still a picture of me.”
Bank Manager: “Doesn’t matter. An expired license is not a valid ID. As far as we’re concerned it’s just a piece of paper. It’s no longer a legal document.”
The law is meant to stop people from getting multiple drivers license NUMBERS and specifically to stop people with revoked licenses from applying for a new one under a different name.
The thing about this that makes no sense is the expired license is valid ID for the purpose of applying for a new one, if you don’t have it at all they fuss. Which is still silly since they have a scan of it they can just pull up.
You’re s’posed to get your new license before your old one expires. Or at the very least, apply for it and have the renewal process underway before your old one expires.
This is what I think is the case: Legally, an expired license is identically equal to a square of toilet paper. If you let it expire before renewing, you have to apply for a new license like you never owned one before. In today’s paranoid times, that would mean having to jump through horrendous hoops to identify yourself. AND take the drivers road test all over, and everything else involved in getting a first-time license.
In actual practice, if the clerk at the DMV lets you get by without any fuss, I think that’s just the clerk choosing to look the other way and cutting you some slack. That’s happened twice to me in my lifetime that I can recall. (In one of those cases, the clerk did fuss, but the office supervisor gave it a pass.) It might be that the clerk just wasn’t paying attention and never noticed.
Now, in these everything-computerized days, one would have thought that the computer would pop up big red warning messages with klaxons blaring and SWAT teams auto-scrambling. Even thirty years ago, it was all computerized AFAIK. But somehow I got my license renewed without so much as a raised eyebrow, even though I had been carelessly driving with an expired license for over a month.
While we’re on the subject, why on earth would the bank (or even a liquor store cashier) refuse to accept a drivers license that’s expired by say 2 months? What legitimate purpose does such a policy serve?
I don’t get this either because while it no longer be a legal permit to drive, it is still just as valid as proof of age which it was never meant for anyway. And since humans tend to not age in reverse under any circumstance I’m blanking on this one.
Usually the manager will ok it.
As for the OP’s original question: Every time I get a new drivers license, I usually keep the older one and just leave it laying around somewhere. Nowhere in the process does any demand that I actually turn in my expired license.
I don’t carry the old license around with me, so no cop who might stop me is going to find it and haul me and all my licenses away, never to be seen again.
But what happens if a team of jack-booted thugs kicks down my door at 4:00 a.m., throws in a few flash-bangs, and searches my house, leaving behind a ransacked pile of rubble in their wake? And all because someone thought they saw a pot plant growing in my backyard, but it was actually just a bamboo plant in the yard across the street? (Happens.) And they find my stash of old licenses?
How much trouble would I be in over that?
I don’t think it’s really a big deal. If you ever get caught with multiple licenses (even old expired ones), think the cops will simply confiscate all the invalid ones (and maybe the valid one too if they want to be grumpy about it).
AFAIK this would only be the case if you really mess up and wait a long time, like a year.
Everyone at all levels just covering their asses, I presume.
Why would anyone accept it?
There’s a rule that an expired license is void. Period. Nobody, in the legislature nor at any private business, ever enacted a law or policy allowing a months slack, or 2 months slack. Why would anyone have even bothered?
And that being the case, nobody also ever authorized anyone to make any on-the-spot decision about it. For example, at a bank, nobody from the Big Hungus CEO down to the customer-facing teller ever bothered to authorize a month or 2 slack. Simply because . . . Why would they even bother? And employees at the lower end of the food chain certainly won’t dare to do that on their own. (Notwithstanding my earlier remark that DMV clerks might, but I think that was because the clerk in my case just wasn’t paying attention.)
ETA: As for the liquor store cashier : Well, that’s serious ass-covering there. Absent the month-or-two grace period that nobody ever bothered to authorize, you can bet your ass that no lowly cashier is going to “look the other way”. They can go to jail if they do that!
According to TABC rules your ass is NEVER covered, there is 0 immunity whether the license is valid or invalid for driving. Fake IDs whatever, if you sell to someone underage you have committed a crime no matter what.
your old (expired) license has your photo and is there to verify your identity. The temporary license attached to it is a valid driver’s license. In Michigan, when you get a renewal, the Secretary of State (our version of a DMV) punches out a bit of the magstripe/barcode of your existing license, then staples the temporary renewal to it.
In partial answer to Senegoid’s post (No. 8), I did have to take one test in the process of renewing my license: a vision test. No big deal; I do that every year at the office of my ophthalmologist. And, of course, they took my picture again.
But, presumably, the offence is selling to someone under age, and not for selling to someone without valid ID. So, if the liquor-store clerk and the customer were father and son, the son could say, “Dad, you know exactly how old I am: you were at the hospital with Mom when I was born.” And, if the son were over 21, but had no ID, no offence would be committed.
Yes exactly, the crime is selling to someone under 21. There is no crime of selling to someone with no or expired ID, and there is no defense to the crime if the person is under 21 even if they had a perfect fake ID. At least that is what the TABC training covers.
And interestingly if the son was under 21 the father could legally provide the alcohol to him as long as it is consumed in his presence. One of the few ways Texas law is sensible concerning alcohol.
A grocery chain in Texas got in trouble for not properly handling and possibly selling to minors alcohol flavored foods(I don’t recall if there was an actual case, just a TABC official freaking out and threatening to yank the liquor license), brandy flavored chocolate and such.:smack: Impossible to become intoxicated on.
You get yours in the mail?
I’ve had my license for 20 years in 2 states. I suppose I’ve had it renewed or replaced 5-6 times, and I’ve always gotten them instantly.
I also have some expired ones, accidentally. Lost it a couple times only to find it later. Generally, they ask for and take your existing/old one at regular renewal time.
Over here in the UK (and I suppose in the whole EU) a photo driving licence is valid for ten years. My wife does not have one but she does have her original paper licence and it is still valid. (But no use as ID for car hire etc.)
Driving licences are linked to passports, so when I renewed mine a couple of years ago, I was able to give them my passport number and they used the fairly recent photo from that.
There is some terminology difference: A licence to drive lasts indefinitely. If you fail to renew the photo after ten years it doesn’t mean that you do not have a licence as that is a separate offence. If stopped and the photo didn’t match, it could cause problems while the cops checked your ID. If someone went abroad for twenty years, they could simply apply for a new licence on their return using their passport as ID. Of course, getting a passport or a driving licence requires some hoop jumping in the first place but after that - no problem.
EU citizens can drive in other countries for three years (or until they are 70) without difficulty. After that they have to apply for a local licence, but no test is required.