Explain to me exactly, why blacks are the most priveliged monority?

Great Debates
61

This is not a flame, but if you want to take a step toward making Indians happy, and you can’t just call them people, stop calling them Native Americans. For one thing, America is the name conquerors assigned to a vast region of theretofore sovereign nations. You could hardly insult people more than naming them after one of their conquerors.

If we had our druthers (which we almost never do), we would have you call us by the names derived from our nations: Apache, Cherokee, Sioux, etc. But we do derive a bit of smug satisfaction from the word “Indian” because it stands as a testament to just how ignorant our conquerors were.

62

Libertarian: This is not a flame, but if you want to take a step toward making Indians happy, and you can’t just call them people, stop calling them Native Americans.

Most Indians and Indian organizations that I know of seem to use “Indian” and “Native American” (and/or “Native American Indian” and/or “American Indian”) pretty much interchangeably, though, and some strongly prefer “Native American”, so I’m not sure your recommendation works as a general rule. When it comes to applying such designations to you personally, of course, your word is law, Lib. :slight_smile:

63

Libertarian writes:

> But we do derive a bit of smug satisfaction from the
> word “Indian” because it stands as a testament to just
> how ignorant our conquerors were.

So you want us to call you by a name that makes us look stupid.

64

Just call me Lib.

I would like to let everyone know that no less than James Randi has recognized the wonderful skills and potential of fourteen-year-old Jordan Good Weasel, an eighth-grader at Little Wound Middle School in Kyle, South Dakota. Jordan is an Oglala Sioux and a brilliant kid. Mr. Randi is spearheading an education scholarship fund for the boy. Thanks, Mr. Randi!

65

/hijack

I’ve always wondered what to call Native Americans/Indians/ the Tribal People Living in North/South America Before the Arrival of Europeans…I don’t like Native American myself, hate Indian (Silly me, I use it to describe people from India), and while I’d love to use Cherokee, Apache, etc, it demands I know what tribe the person is identified with…kind of like mistaking a Korean for a Japanese - not necessarily a good idea.

/On topic

I don’t think you can keep a scorecard. Blacks have some definate advantages compared to other racial minorities - they are almost never seen as perpetual immigrants, for instance - (I’ve met Asians whose families have been here for 150 years, who are still treated like they “got off the boat” yesterday). Asians get the “model minority” myth - which can be both an advantage or a disadvantage, but does keep you from getting booked and held for 24 hours on a minor traffic violation, something that has happened to young Black men I know. Latinos may have the most well rounded view - yeah, they get the manual labor/migrant worker/illegal immigrant sterotype, but in much of the country, they are visible as community and business leaders.

Personally, my vote goes to women (especially white women) as minority on top (sexual innuendo intended). First, we aren’t even a real minority. Second, we tend to hang with and have influence over white men - where everyone knows the real power is. Third, we don’t get booked for petty traffic violations, no one avoids us in elevators. We get good roles on TV and in film - villians, heroes, romantic leads. All we need is an NFL quarterback, and we’ve got all those privledges.

(P.S. Asian actor in role where Asian was not necessary - Lucy Liu in Charlie’s Angels. Although Asians are woefully under represented in mainstream film and TV. Keanu Reeves doesn’t count for two reasons - one, few people know he is Asian - he is Asian like Tiger Woods is Asian - and two, he can’t act and is therefore not an actor - just some good looking guy who gets paid to be in movies. Should Mr. Reeves ever win an Oscar, I will apologize for this critique.)

66

We’re so low on the totem pole, we’re off topic!

67

I thought you were Cherokee, not Chinook.

68

Oh, what difference does it make? We all look alike. :wink:

69

[celestina clapping in honor of edwino’s and Dangerosa’s posts]

Yes! Now y’all are making sense in this thread. :slight_smile: Dangerosa, I would add to your assertion that white women get a lot of the good acting roles, that while they get more roles, they still are discriminated against in that the roles they do get are sexually exploitive or are pristine (e.g. Remember the year of the Oscars when most if not all of the women up for the Best Actress Oscar had played either a nun role or a hooker role, and there was commentary on how the Academy seems to validate and perpetuate that shit?) and therefore limiting AND that they are discriminated against based on age–the older they get, the fewer the choice roles are. However, these things only reinforce the fact that they are a minority in the social science sense not the numbers sense.

edwino, I would add to what you say that for some Asians too, it’s easier to establish themselves and prosper by the time the second or third generation is born because Asians who elect to come to America have a network in place. For example, some Asians who immigrate to America actually were quite prosperous in their homeland, and they are able to bring some of their wealth and the prestige of their family name or standing to the community of Asians they will interact with in America. I have been told by a few Asian friends that this happens. Then there are those Asians who may not be as wealthy or prestigious in the homeland, but who have family or connections with an Asian community that is already established somewhere in America. They may come to America and say either for a time take over running or just simply work for a Chinese restaurant or some other Chinese business that has been operating. With the support of an existing, supportive Asian infrastructure, hard work, and pushing the children to study and attain professional degrees (doctor, lawyer, blah, blah, blah), it is easier to become more prosperous by the time the second or third generation is born. Let me say I am in no way discounting the HELL some Asians go through just to get to America or the difficulties Asians encounter adjusting to America even with the help of an existing Asian infrastructure. Whether or not you’re Asian, edwino, and jamesblan, since you say you’re a quarter Japanese, have you experienced or seen the phenomena I’ve just described take place?

Carry on. I’m enjoying reading this thread.

70

[[The reason we are not a substantial force in American politics is simply because we have very little political clout, except in certain remote places.]]

Huh. We don’t feel “remote” in New Mexico…

71

celestina,
No I have not experienced it firsthand, but I know it exists, and is the point of my thread. Thank you for the point and the description. Despite the attacks of the earlier posts, I feel that many of you now are understanding that I am truly being realistic, and not bigoted in any way.
Libertarian is a blowhard who knows no ability to see anything but argument and verbal attack. I know what I have been told by one who is a Native American that he prefers that above all other labels. In Ohio, we have few native Americans to get a perspective on what is and is not acceptable to them, but I am absolutely receptive to what they wish. Give me something acceptable.
As far as Asians are concerned, my grandfather was 3/4 Japanese (but looked mostly European)in WWII who served in the US army as an interpreter AFTER the Bataan Death March and in prison camp. He served America, but he still tells me of the predjudice and racism his mother endured back home being a full-blooded Japanese woman. I never want to be part of something like that. If that was to be the American doctrine, then the German people in America should have been treated the same way. It is a part of American history that (among others) is shit.

72

I’m not quite sure why the need to verbally assault Libertarian, here. (?) Now, as to

I would tend to agree with the general point that any person who wishes to identify the indigenous population of the continents of the Western Hemisphere with a single general term will never satisfy large groups of those peoples’ descendants. Libertarian says “stop calling them Native Americans.” The late and unlamented Phaedrus, in the midst of his periodic claims of racial superiority, would insist that we do say “Native American” and would foam at the mouth at the mention of the word “Indian.” In the context of “white” and “black,” it would seem that a logical case could have been made for “red,” however far too many racist novels and editorials have hung so much baggage on “red” and “yellow” that I doubt they would ever be acceptable. The Canadian “First Peoples” works for me, (not that I have a say), but it certainly has not caught on among people (including the descendant indigenes) south of the border.

About the best you can do is pick a word that feels right in a particular situation and try to accept a “correction” from your audience as graciously as possible.

73

jamesblan said:
“celestina,
No I have not experienced it firsthand, but I know it exists, and is the point of my thread.”

You’re welcome for the description, but james I still don’t understand what the point of this thread is. I’m not calling you a racist, but I sense some deep resentment on your part against blacks and whites, and I’m still trying to figure that out. Is it that as a culturally mixed person (Eurasian), you find it difficult to establish where you fit in American society? I’ve heard from Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese friends that there is quite a bit of prejudice against Eurasians or mixed Asians within Asian cultures who frown on members marrying and/or having children outside of their particular cultures. Or is there something else going on here? Is the point of this thread that you’re upset that Asians like Cherokee, Sioux, Lumbee, Blackfoot, . . . peoples get erased from socio-political discourse when American politicians and political groups discuss legislation for minorities, or when Americans talk about the history of oppression in America? If that’s the case, then I wonder why those other minorities get shunted to the background?

[celestina stepping on her soapbox]

I will say this–I think someone said this earlier–black folks have been the major instigators for socio-economic and political justice and reform in this country as seen in the move for equal rights for all men and women. I’m not discounting the fact that Asians, American Indians (Will that do, Lib? ;-)), and Hispanics have not suffered or fought against oppression. They have. However, I would add that the practice of slavery in America demonstrated the hypocricy of those who predicated America on the notion that “all men are created equal,” but who failed to deliver the goods. Black folks’ subsequent questioning of this hypocricy from Sojourner Truth’s seminal speech “Ain’t I a Woman” to their meeting early versions of what we now call the “glass ceiling” during Reconstruction to black male soldiers fighting and dying for America in WWI and WWII only to return to America to get lynched for stepping out of their place as second class citizens to the Civil Rights Movement to the Black Arts Movement–flawed as it was, it still set the stage for multiculturalism–black people moreso than any other minority in America have been integral in moving America on to the path to become the great nation it has the potential to be. We ain’t there yet. Black folks’ struggle to gain socio-economic and political parity in America has set the precedent for other minorities: women, Asians, American Indians, and Hispanics to have a forum to base their own dialogue for justice on. A study of black American history would help all Americans understand how we’ve come to be here doing what we’re doing–still chasing our tails about race as a biological and/or cultural argument for white superiority [insert rolleyes], rather than learning to celebrate our differences and find points of strength in them–in the 21st Century. I personally don’t think this country will progress until we understand and make our peace with ALL the psycho-socio and cultural aspects of our history, however painful they might be.

[celestina stepping off her soapbox]

This is not an attack on you, james, so calm down. I would just like for you to clarify what your position is and how it relates to some of what I’ve just said in this post, and believe me, I know how difficult that can be. That and the incredible time commitment required to oversee these threads–I don’t see how you dopers do it. Are y’all chained to your computers 24-7?–are the reasons why I don’t dare start any threads of my own. :wink:

74

celestina,
Nice post. You may be right.

            Jamesblan
75

Ummmm…to me this OP makes no sense at all. Why is that? It’s because in my present enviroment (Hawaii) the things you speak of hardly exist considering most of the population is Asian here. So before even making this OP I think it would have been a good idea to take in account location. I.E narrow it down. Instead of saying “Blacks oare the most priviladged” (Hell I kow I didn’t spell that right) it would be easier to ask why are blacks the most blah blah blah in the Northern Unitied states or something. Because c;early we are not that prividlaged or even accepted on a global level,heck some of the globe fails to reconize us as a people. I have enough troble getting accepted out here as a person let alone my “Second soul home” Japan.

76

jamesblan said:
“celestina,
Nice post. You may be right.”

Jamesblan-san, arigatoo gozaimashita. It was nice talking with you. I’m glad I could help.

Sagasumono-san, hajimemashite. Celestina desu. What does your name mean? Since we can’t put kanji up on the board :-(, I can’t tell. Does it mean looking for something, as in the verb “sagasu,” + “mono” = thing, or is there something else going on here? Sorry, if I’m being nosy, I’m just curious. You said:

“Because c;early we are not that prividlaged or even accepted on a global level,heck some of the globe fails to reconize us as a people. I have enough troble getting accepted out here as a person let alone my “Second soul home” Japan.”

Excellent point. Have you seen “Struggle and Success: The African American Experience in Japan” (1992) directed by Theodore “Regge” Life? It’s a fascinating documentary on blacks and how they make their way in Japan in the mid-to-late 1980s. His website is: Struggle and Success the African American Experience in Japan

Black folks in South America, the West Indies, and the Caribbean historically have had a difficult time, particularly during the slave trade, where the atrocities suffered on their parts were at least ten times worse than what they suffered in America for the simple reason that there was a steady supply of enslaved Africans coming in on the slave ships. Rather than adequately feed and clothe enslaved peoples, slaveholders would work and/or torture them to death and then go down and buy more people to enslave because they were sold for far less in the West Indies and the Caribbean than in the US.

Oh–I’m on a film kick today, humor me–and Gloria Rolando, an OUTSTANDING filmmaker from Cuba, has done a moving tribute to the 6,000 black folks massacred by the Cuban Army in 1912 called “Raices de mi corazon.” This bit of history was all but unknown to Cubans generally until she released the film. The only other film by her I’ve seen is “Eyes of the Rainbow” a documentary of her good friend exiled Black Panther leader Assata Shakur–no relation to Tupac Shakur. Her website is: http://afrocubaweb.com/gloriarolando.htm

I realize these are just a three films, but I don’t have time to write an extended essay on the global oppression of black people. :slight_smile: If you get the chance to see any of these films, you will not be disappointed.

77

Hiya Celestina San! Koete ariatou! Name no imi wa Chanto tadashii desu yo. “Searching” no sagasu to mono,not “thing” but “hito” no “mono” Demo,you are pretty much correct. :slight_smile:

And thank you very much for that link. I didn’t know such a film had been made. I would like to see an updated version of it,espically since we kokujins have been “popular” in Japan for about 2 years now. However in that,is an intresting “reverse” racisim which is beter to make a seprate thread about.

But thank you for agreeing with me. Like my point was, we cannot claim racisim everywhere. Take Hawaii,where I live for example. There are few of us (and even fewer blaquneese) but because hawaii’s population is so “diverse” it would be very hard for me to claim racisim. It’s funny that I’m in a weird little bind right now being the only black employee out of over 1000 other workers at my hotel. Makes me the O in a sea of X’s. And I didn’t even get the job because I’m black,so the guy who stared this OP’s claim of “most privadleged” is wrong. If there was someone who applied before me who was a HAwaii “citizen” (local) and spoke Japanese,hands down he would get the job.

78

Sagasumono-san, wakarimashita. Onamae no imi wo hanasu no ga, arigatou gozaimashita. Nihongo wo benkiyou suru no ga daisuki desu yo. :slight_smile: Demo, Nihongo wo takusan wasurete shite shimaimashita. :frowning: Sumimasen. Kanji to bunpoo wo renshuu shinakute wa ikemasen nee.

I’m glad you found the link helpful. I think Regge Life also just completed another more recent documentary on Japanese-Korean relationships in Japan. From what what I’ve heard him say, he’s had a difficult time marketing the film about blacks in Japan. I too, hope he can do an update on black experiences in Japan.

I appreciate your assertion that race relations globally are VERY complex. Your sharing your perspective on what life is like for you over in Hawaii was enlightening for me because I don’t know anything about what goes on in Hawaii, but I must say that I appreciate the OP raising the issue it did because I imagine there are people out there operating under the same misinformed assumptions. Indeed we don’t talk enough about our biases, and therefore they continue to cloud our thinking. If we can get them out in the open and analyze them, then we can get one step closer to eradicating ignorance. It took a lot of alcohol :slight_smile: and guts for Jamesblan to voice his opinion, and I admire his willingness to after debating it with folks admit that he learned something from his interaction with folks in this thread. So however flawed the OP was initially, at least it provided a chance for people to learn. :slight_smile:

79

We hear a lot of that here in Tallahassee, FL, too – activists protesting the use of “Seminoles” as the FSU mascot. What makes me LMAO is that the head of the local native Seminole community fully supports the use of the Seminole as the team name! :slight_smile: