Fallacies get imprinted young...

The BBQ Pit
21

If men are acting independantly of God, then He had nothing to do with the girl being found. That was the police officer’s doing. If God “made” the cop find her, or even “assisted” him in doing so, then God could have maybe acted a little faster. The cop, with God’s help, could have been hanging out near where the act took place and prevented it from ever happening.

Your statement is supporting the exact logical fallacy the OP is trying to point out.

IF God made the girl be saved, THEN God made her be raped.
IF the rapist was acting with free will and under no intervention from God, THEN the Officer who saved her was actiing with free will and under no intervention from God.

Either scenario would make Thanking God a little silly. What is she thanking him for??? It would make more sense for little girls who were NEVER raped or left for dead to be thanking God.
You would like to think that the rapist was acting under his own free will, AND the cop was doing God’s work. WTF!? You can’t have both!

22

Exactly. My whole deal with this is, not only was she brutally raped, which will likely give her a whole ordeal of personal issues through out life, but the fact that people still are trying to implant the idea that God will always be there for the win, but never for the loss. That is a poor outlook to have on life, IMO. And this goes for ANY adult that tries to scam a kid like this.

23

Faulty premise. God is the agent Who facilitates goodness. There is no evil in Him. How then can He be accountable when a free moral agent chooses to do evil? Again I ask, if God is the controller of a man’s every decision, then why is it you are not now writing what He has compelled you to write? And if He is not forcing your hand, then why was He forcing the hand of the rapist?

24

“We won because we signed on to the winning team with Trent Lott, Tom DeLay, and Rick Frothy Fecal Matter: HAIL SATAN!”

:smiley:

25

Then why was He forcing the hand of the police officer? Are you really missing the point, or is your argument that we only have free will to commit evil, and all good actions are orchestrated by God? That God had a hand in the officer saving her, but not the rapist attacking her? And that God really does help out winning sports teams?

26

Could you guys appoint a spokesperson?

No, God does not choose our good acts any more than He chooses our evil acts. But what is the harm in a little girl thanking God that a man chose a good act? As I said, that’s the part I don’t get. Why do you begrudge this girl’s gratitude for her good fortune?

27

That seems like a huge faulty premise to me.
So, what, God can take credit for goodness, but not badness? God can influence things when we like the outcome, but not when we don’t? If your crops fail, it’s not God’s fault, but if they suceed, it’s God’s doing? Isn’t God then at fault for withholding his ‘goodness’?

What about when there is a conflict between what is good for two people? If you and I are involved in a zero sum game, your gain is my loss. Thus, God was involved. But, I lost, so it’s bad, so God wasn’t involved. But you won, and that’s good, so God was involved, but my losing is bad so God wasn’t involved, but your winning is good so God was involved…

There’s a problem with having your cake and eating it too.

How can He be accountable when a free moral agent chooses to do good?

This is a rabbit trail.
To my knowledge, nobody is arguing that there is a being called God who does, in fact, control Universe. They’re arguing that under that paradigm, thanking God for delivering you from a mess he got you into in the first place is loopy.

Seriously… you should be able to see the contradiction in your logic.

If God was able to ‘force’, ‘influence’, what-have-you, the cop to do good, why didn’t God ‘influence’ him to do good sooner? Surely the girl could’ve been saved earlier? Heck, surely the cop could’ve somehow come upon the girl being assaulted and saved her then. Fuck, surely God could have ‘influenced’ local law enforcement/social services to protect the girl before she was even harmed. See, if God causes ‘goodness’, why the fuck doesn’t he cause it sooner?

When dealing with a deity who is supposedly omniscient and omnipotent, innaction is an action.

28

That might be a bit rough… we could always fight for the title of spokescritter.

Well… if as you say “God does not choose our good acts” then she shouldn’t thank God for the cop’s good act. She should thank the cop.

She should have gratitude for her good fortune, as is right and proper. But she should show that gratitude to the guy who saved her.

29

Without God, goodness would not be a choice. Maybe the cop thanks God as well. Will you pit him separately or in here?

30

Damn, hit reply too fast.

Anyway, if you are saying God was at work in the girl’s rescue, why wasn’t he involved in her not being raped in the first place? Obviously, if He can interfere (by making sure the girl was found and allowed to live), then He could have interfered by not allowing her to cross paths with the bastard in the first place. Either way, it would seem there is some lack of free will - if the officer was sent by God, he certainly lacked free will. So why wouldn’t God intervene for a more positive outcome? Because he might have moral reasons of his own for allowing us to exercise free will in the service of evil (but not good) that we can’t possibly comprehend? What a convenient way out of any possible discussion on suffering for Christians.

31

Others of us simply fight to be Miss Congeniality.

:smiley:

32

Yeah, you hit reply too fast. There are so many of you, and you are so repetititve of each other’s comments, that I had already answered your question. And by the way, I’ve asked one of my own. Twice. Anyone in the gang care to answer it?

33

Depends. Will you or the Cop get lives?

I bet the Cop gets one first.

34

Yes, you’re an asshole.

God agrees with us and thus we have consensus.

35

Because God had nothing to do with that person choosing a good act. Why thank God for the free will choice of an individual??? Even you admit God has nothing to do with the choices we make. So if God had nothing to do with the Cop choosing to do good and save the girl, why should he get our thanks for it? Why thank Him for the good things that happen (even if he has nothing to do with him) but not blame him for bad things that he has nothing to do with??

36

The OP specifically said he was more pitting the parents for instilling such a bizarre belief system in the child, one that would appear to me (“gratitude at her good fortune?” Are you fucking serious?) to be completely lacking in anything approaching critical thinking.

On preview: Yeah, I did hit reply too fast, but I guess that never happens to you (what with the Almighty on your side and all). And speaking of repetitive, maybe you should read your own posts sometime. Every thread, you’ve always gotta turn things around to the greatness of God or the greatness of Ayn Rand and then try to obfuscate the issue at hand using your weird axioms.

37

Assuming facts not in evidence.
Without J.R. “Bob” Dobbs, goodness would not be a choice. Now prove me wrong.

And, again, if God ‘causes’, ‘enables’, ‘facilitates’, ‘helps’, ‘is the sole cause of’, etc… goodness, why doesn’t he ‘cause’ it sooner? Is he a Slacker God?

“Dude, like, I totally meant to have that cop save you earlier, but some friends came over and we broke out the bong and, oh, look, cheetos!”

Also, why do you decide God can ‘cause’ good but not evil? Doesn’t that ammount to a ‘free will’ that is weighted? Is a weighted free will really free?

If the cop thanked God, I think we could legitimately point out the error in his logic too. What, God was still high on some primo herb when the girl was getting raped, but then God drank some coffee and sobered up, so he sent the cop to save her once she was left for dead?

38

By the way Lib, what question have you asked that you haven’t gotten an answer on? I could’ve sworn that someone has touched on every one of your points… if you ask it again now I’ll make sure to answer it.

39

Maybe people are bitching about the fact that this kid, like most others, has been taught **what **to think, but not **how **to think. God played as much a role in creating her ordeal as in rescuing her from it: none.

40

This is silly. Who cares that her guardian raised her to be religious? Why is that a bad thing? How do we know that she hasn’t thanked Sgt. Mike Hall?

After what she went through, I’d write her a pass if she wanted to thank Hitler, Santa Claus, and Duck Dodgers. Whatever gave her the whatnot to get through it. This does not compare to thanking God for winning a grammy or a sporting event.

And the whole “God does evil” thing is easy to explain. You can go with God v. Satan with bad things happening to test faith. If you want to leave Satan out (and why would you? The dude rawks hardcore), then you can go with God allowing free will and whatever happens happens. I’m not sure that any religion preaches that God is some form of omnipotent cosmic babysitter. I know it’s simplistic, but pitting someones guardian for making their child religious is retarted.