Bravo, Bear_Nenno!
The reason we can is that the actual bible states that god causes bad things to happen. This is due to the fact that, as been already said, he claims to be mni-, and all that. It is pretty safe to assume these people are christians, seeing as how it is mention in the actual Op, and it is furthermore reasonable to believe that they actually have a simplified view of the bible in which there are no contradictions, and god is a all-powerful, all-knowing force that loves use all, and does battle with the forces of evil. Sure, so the belief that god is not responsable for evil contradicts the acual words of the bible in some places, (He created the fallen angels knowing full well they would fall.) and agees with them in others, ( I am god. I love you all. I am good, and want no harm to befall you.) but that is the impression I get when talking to most people.
Thank you for noticing. Liberal, shut the fuck up already. You ain’t doing me any favors here.
–God
Whoa. I musta blacked out there for a minute. Did I miss anything?
Well, according to my mother, an unbeliever who is capable of kindness, generosity, responsibility, and other moral “good-itudes” is really a believer.
Now, whether that means they’re in denial, in the closet, or simply don’t realize (yet) that they are not, in fact, athiests after all, I dunno. But you see, proper ethical choices are Christian Values™, which means that if you’re capable of making those choices, you’re a Christian, whether you want to be or not.
So there.
If you were truly an unbeliever, you’d be out setting kittens on fire.
Hey, atheism is just as much a religion as Christianity. And you’re only denying what you know to be true deep down. You’re not a nonbeliever, you’re just pissed off at God. Just like in the movies.
She asked for a “pastor.” Therefore she is not Catholic, Muslim, Jewish, or anything else but a Protestant of some sort. As the OIG is a central tenet of all Christian sects that I can think of, it’s safe to assume that is the belief she has been taught.
Damn, that was funny. If I didn’t have some potentially bad Abner’s chicken doing cartwheels in my bowels I might not have been so afraid to let out a really loud laugh…
-Joe, clenching
Well, in the movies, whenever someone is pissed off at God, God does something really miraculous for the person, to make amends for whatever pissed them off in the first place.
So yeah, I’m pissed. REALLY pissed. And the only thing that could possibly make me feel better and start believing again is winning the lottery.
Right now.
Without having purchased a ticket.
I mean, really, it’d be a win-win situation for The Big Man–think of the tithes I could contribute . . .
Ooh ooh ooh! Mine involves Goran Visnjic (from E.R.) coming in here and violating certain versus of Romans with me. I’m gonna remain an unbeliever till that happens. So howsaboutit, God?
I was just thinking this…I haven’t read any part of the Bible in ages, but aren’t there some places where God does things that are decidedly not cricket? He put poor Job through some really nasty suffering for what seems to be no better reason than to test his faith…same with that fellow–was it Abraham?–who He asked to sacrifice his son, but then when he was just about to, said, “Ha! Just joshin’ you, buddy,” and went on to commend him for his faith. The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah wasn’t exactly a picnic for anyone involved, and correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t God cause the Great Flood, thereby wiping out all of humanity except for Noah + family, just because he was somewhat irked and felt they were undeserving sinners?
(And to take a Christian view of things…aren’t we all undeserving sinners? What, then, is to keep God from smiting us, Sodom-and-Gomorrah style, if He dislikes our particular brand of sin?)
I have actually met some folks (and this horrifies me just a little, I must admit) who believe a variation of “God works in mysterious ways”–that God actively causes evil, but for some good end that humanity is unable to comprehend at the moment. Examples (which were actually given to me by these people, and which I am not making up off the top of my head): “God caused the Holocaust to band the Jewish community closer together.” “God caused the events of September 11th in order to make America more religious.” “God caused the tsunami to make people in wealthy countries more charitable.”
But as for the rest of this thread…non-religious folks, do you like it when religious people proselytize to you?
Probably not.
Religious people, do you like it when someone non-religious ridicules your beliefs?
Probably not.
Is there any way to avoid these problems, short of keeping our mouths shut about other people’s beliefs?
Probably not.
And yes, I do know I’m going to regret getting involved in this thread…oh, well.
Gotta say I admire Lib for having the courage to come into these threads. He must know he is going to get jumped on.
I personally dont think God had anything to do with the rescue or the crime. Choices we make are ours, and ours alone. I think God points to the right path, he doesnt put our feet upon it however.
I also think starting a pit thread because an eight year old girl after being raped and beaten wanted to thank God she survived is stupid in its own right. And Hunter Hawk it is morons like you that make being Christian harder than it needs to be. There is a subtle difference between a gentle mocking, and outright dickness. You should learn it.
And in the toot my own horn section…woot, 500th post!
No, that was a joke. If that shook your Christian faith, it says nothing about Hunter Hawk. If that was enough to make it hard for you to be Christian, you’ve got a tough path in the world. Not that it’s someone else’s responsibility to avoid tempting you off your religious path - after all, doesn’t the Bible say the whole world is set against you if you are a Christian? A little joke in the Pit is the least of your worries, son.
Why are you assuming that the actions of an all-knowing, infinitely intelligent God are going to make sense to you? Isn’t it possible that He has information that you don’t?
And why would you expect an 8-year-old to understand the problem of pain when it’s been discussed, debated, and argued about by theologians for centuries?
Since God’s also omniscient, he oughta have ways of accomplishing his goals that don’t involve raping 8-year-olds.
I’m just sayin’, is all . . .
Possible, yes. OTOH, my lack of this information is also God’s fault. Moreover, this fault is correctable. Claiming such information simply pushes the arugment down a level; it doesn’t solve anything.
I didn’t say that He’s the sole source of everything in existence. I said that He’s the source of goodness. He is the agent Who facilitates goodness — i.e., He is love. Evil is merely the moral decision to obstruct goodness. Evil doesn’t exist in the sense of something real, like love, but in the sense of something abstract, like the number 2.
Every analogy is flawed in some sense, isn’t it?
We can also argue that God is all powerful but has chosen to restrain His own powers in matters of moral choice. That’s what free will is all about, as I see it: freedom to make moral decisions. An all-powerful being, surely, has the power of perfect self-restraint. Jesus teaches that neither He nor the Father judge anyone.
Unfortunately, it might be the case that I’m rather naive. It always surprises me when I express my opinion, only to be met by a barrage (usually from the same sources time after time) of amazingly intense opposition. I have never understood why I am singled out for this. Lots of people come into threads like these (you, for instance), and state their opinions and do not endure a deluge of righteous indignation. I, on the other hand, can hardly state my opinions — opinions that, on the whole are well known — without being told how stupid, condescending, nitpicking, hijacking, stubborn, hypocritical, and monstrous I am. If nothing else, I’m coming to mind it less and less. Eventually, you get used to the weight of the balls and chains.
I know it was a joke, but being a joke doesnt make him less a dick.