Not to hijack my own OP, but I have to point out two statements that seem to have slid under the radar:
“I, your average smoker, cannot annoy, affect your comfort, or risk your health by indulging my habit in public places.”
“Given the ease which people can and do stop caffeine cold turkey without anti-social behavior, I say it isn’t addictive.”
Utter bollocks
I am fat. I am not lazy or addicted. I am, however, handicapped - but not because of my weight.
I have spent many months in the hospital in my life. And during these “visits”, I am carefully monitored - exactly how much food and liquid go in, how much exercise, and how much waste comes out. And no cheating. I gained weight. Each and every time. They wouldn’t limit me to less than 400 calories a day - but I gained weight at that level.
Why? After LOTS of tests, it turns out that my metabolism shuts down when my body diets. This happens to a lot of people who are obese. Exercise did not increase metabolism. (recumbent bike, 4 times a day, for 15 minutes a time) The only diet that ever worked for me was Atkins, but my kidneys shut down. All in all, I’d rather be alive than to try that again.
So even though you can lose weight, please stop assuming that everyone can. I’m happy that none of you seem to have ever had a significant weight problem. But that doesn’t make you better than me, that just makes you thinner.
I agree wholeheartedly. That’s why it’s so frustrating. It seems so obvious, but those damned trees always seem to get in the way. I wasn’t saying the frustration is right or good in any way, but it’s just a reaction that I sometimes have to these kinds of situations so I thought I’d throw it in there. Everyone has their demons and no one seems to like those lil’ bastards very much. The best we can do is be respectuful and appreciate each others circumstances as best we can.
DeVena, How common is your condition? Does it have a name? Do you consider yourself representative of most overweight people?
Ah, but cainxinth brought forth the right term in that they are doped.
Soda and coffee intake are two different animals.
The general movie soda is more than the 12oz of a can.
Generally, they are 16 to 72 ounces(Big Gulp sized).
Now, factoring for ice, let’s take 2oz off for a 16oz soda and 8 ounces for a 72oz soda.
As there are 150 calories in a 12oz can of Coke or Pepsi, we have 12.5 calories an ounce.
There are 38.4 grams of caffeine in a Pepsi, and 45.6 grams in a Coke. This breaks down per ounce to 3.2 grams in Pepsi, and 3.8 grams in Coke.
So, the 16 ounce movie soda, factored for ice is 175 calories with either 44.8 or 53.2 grams of caffeine.
The 72 oz soda, factored for ice is, 800 calories with either 204.8 or 243.2 grams of caffeine.
At McDonald’s or Burger King, their largest value meal sized beverage is generally 44 ounces of soda with say 4 ounces of ice.
That factors to: 500 calories with either 128 or 152 grams of caffeine.
The majority of soda drinkers I have known, do not drink coffee, or only do so in the morning.
To get the caffeine communsurate with coffee, they drink more, and thus ingest more empty calories, enriching Pepsi and Coke, and expanding their waistlines.
After all the evils The Truth has brought forth about the tobacco industry, are you really going to think that the soda industry is not attempting similar tactics?
I meant milligrams(mg) in my previous post, not grams.
I consider myself a representative of most morbidly obese people. I’ve been in several studies. With me, it’s mostly genetic. My genetic brother is 6’4" - 400 lbs. and my adopted sister is 5’2" 100 lbs. We ate at the same table - had enforced family exercise time. She’s a chihuahua, and I’m a St Bernard.
If someone is only overweight, then I have no doubt that exercise would do them a world of good. I think exercise helps everyone, including the morbidly obese. I exercise everyday. And I have maintained my weight for several years, without gaining, by eating sensibly. I’ve never binged. There are people who have serious food issues, but not every fat person has an eating disorder.
But some people are just fat. If you’d like more information, please visit NAAFA - lots of studies and political information.
But if you’d like to understand… go here..
Just thought I’d put it out there.
After a certain point has been reached, I think “victims”, whether alcoholics, junkies, or people who overeat, are simply people who refuse to help themselves.
DeVena, perhaps you could direct me to a more specific study, but I couldn’t find anything on those sites showing that most cases of obesity are not self-inflicted. I sympathize with your situation, but I find it hard to imagine you are representative of most obese people. I just don’t see too many obese people jogging, but I do see them at McDonalds.
If I’m off base, I will apologize and admit my error, but I need to see some convincing evidence first.
Also, if your metabolism literally shuts down when you diet wouldn’t you grow very ill and die? If mitochondria aren’t producing ATP none of your organs would work. There must be a name for a condition as severe as that.
Actually, there is a lot of truth in this statement. I don’t know about the “don’t GET to eat as much as ‘normal’ people” part of it. But because of the way “dieting” works, people who try to lose weight DO often create their own “metabolism” deficit so to speak.
For instance, lets say some young teen female (britney wannabe) is just a smidge overweight, maybe 5 or 10 pounds. To most of us, she looks just fine, but to her, if her idol is a britney, or some “heroine chic” starved looking model, she (the young girl) is going to think she’s fat.
And the next thing you know, she’s off on a diet and likely plunging herself into a lifetime of yo-yoing up and down the scale.
Calorie deprivation, if not very carefully and skillfully done, CAUSES a person to get fat. Most people who decide to “go on a diet” think that “more is more” and jump feet first into some sort of severe calorie deprivation.
What happens then is that your body “thinks” it is literally starving. It will automatically start shutting down all “non-essential” activities, so in addition to being hungry, you are now exhausted.
And while limiting calories will cause a bit of fat loss, what the body naturally and immediately goes for is the MUSCLE tissue!!!
YIKES!, after all, muscle is where fat is burned. So, while a person exercising “self control” is losing scale weight, it’s neither safe, healthy effective or permanent. And worse of all, after a person gets to the point where they’ve lost 5-10 pounds (most of it muscle) their body pretty much causes a “rebound” effect and the person can’t help but eat.
And then, guess what? Because that person has lost muscle (50 calories per day burned per pound of muscle), they can now eat LESS food than they could before they “dieted” and will still gain weight.
Yay such a bargain huh?
I’ve said it before, but I have to chime in here, people need the education and emotional support to lose weight every BIT as much as they need to use “self control” and exercise.
In fact, that would be the first thing people looking to lose fat should check out. That is, how is it best and most efficiently lost and kept off.
A lot of people know that we all should “exercise and eat right” but most people don’t really know how to do just that.
And no, as I already said, starving, or eating a steady diet of salads or cabbage soup, or aerobicizing to death is not the best way. But sadly, when overweight people think of what the solution is, that’s what they think they would have to do.
Sorry bit of a hijack there, but the “hey just get off the couch and stop eating cookies” line of thought, kind of bugs me and is an oversimplificiation of why and how people get and stay fat.
I agree entirely, and everything you just said can be learned at a local gym or even from a health conscious friend. But, the point remains, slow and steady dieting combined with proper nutrition and excercize will burn fat on anyone but individuals with uncommon medical conditions.
DeVena may prove that those conditions aren’t so uncommon, but the jury is still out for me on that issue.
I’m always amazed at how fast these “fat” threads turn ugly.
For the record, if I went by what I saw on this board I would have to consider myself to be a medical miracle. I happen to be “scrawny” and “flabby” at the same time.
I was always “skinny” or “scrawny” depending on how charitable the big people were in describing me.
When I was a teenager, I ate. I ate a lot. I loaded proteins and lifted weights to try to add muscle mass. At one point I gave up and ate a lot of fat and carbs just trying to gain weight. Any weight at all would have been good at the time. Nothing ever worked.
Then, a funny thing happened. I got older, and I filled out.
My ravenous appetite went away. I didn’t need to eat constantly, so I stopped following the eating habits I’d acquired as a teenager. I just didn’t need as much food, and I realized that.
Now I’m 35. Some days I skip breakfast altogether, but I’ll usually have at leat a bagel with some cream cheese. I have a sandwich or something for lunch, and then I have dinner when I get home.
That’s really all I want.
I don’t eat the huge meals I ate when I was 15, and I don’t snack all day either. But that’s because I grew up eating properly and my Mom taught me how to eat.
I never feel deprived, and I never feel like I’m “sacrificing” anything.
If you can’t tailor your dietary intake to you physiological requirements, then you have a problem. And it isn’t “glandular.”
It’s really NOT an over simplification though.
I lost alot of weight, and I didn’t do it by depriving myself. That doesn’t work.
Instead of eating 4 slices of pizza and then lying on the couch watching sitcoms, I’d have two slices and then go walking for 30 minutes, or whatever I’d worked myself up to at the time.
It really IS that easy.
I still eat whatever I want, I just use my head.
I think our society these days is far to dependent on outside help. Everyone wants government funding for something or another, everyone wants all their medical stuff paid for, yadda yadda. What people really need to do is to LEARN TO SUPPORT THEMSELVES. Most people don’t need to take pills to lose weight. If they are so inclined to buy pills, they should have to pay for them and not complain. It is not necessary to join a gym, buy expensive healthfood, or go out and get a treadmill to lose weight. Walking is a great free exercise that does wonders for your overall health. There aren’t many cities I know of that don’t have a high-school or college track that is opened to the public for free.
*When I say “Everyone” I don’t literally mean everyone on the face of the earth. It just seems like a majority, or a high percentage. Just had to add this little disclaimer because I know how you guys can be 
I think you’ve been misinformed by doctors who don’t know anything about nutrition or exercise.
First, your metabolism will shut down if you restrict yourself to 400 calories per day. There’s a minimum caloric intake that you have to maintain if you don’t want your body to shut your metabolism down. It’s a lot higher than most people think–I’m 5’10", about 185 pounds of lean mass, and I need about 2400 calories a day minimum.
The exercise bike is probably the worst form of exercise out there in terms of picking up your metabolism. Unless you’re busting ass working the pedals for a while, nothing’ll happen. Did they ever have you on weights?
I maintain that anyone can lose fat on the right exercise program and diet. Good ones are pretty different from what most people are doing: they have a strong emphasis on weight training, a secondary emphasis on short-duration alternating high/low intensity aerobic training, and a diet that contains enough calories.
This is as good as I can find right now. My last hospital vacation just listed me as Morbidly Obese with Deficient Metabolism. I know there’s another phrase for that, but I just can’t think of it right now.
And per exercise, most fat people hate to use public facilities because of the humiliation and ridicule. Don’t get me wrong - I’m all for exercise. It is VERY important to one’s health. But, with all the pointing, laughing and rude comments, you get ashamed to be seen in public at all, much less be seen struggling and sweating.
Are there Gymn chains where this happens, please pit them for us, as I am looking for a gymn and wouldn’t want to support one that allows this sort of thing to happen. Also are there any Gymn chains that will expell members who pick on other members, and actively do get rid of such bullying. I think being rude to an overweight person in a Gymn is as bad or worse than racism, and I’d hapilly kick the shit out of anyone I find doing such a thing.
Cheers, Bippy
No cite, but if the trend was subject to personal control, it wouldn’t be a trend.
No, really: do you think this is happening because Americans in 2003 have less willpower than Americans did in 1953? Don’t be silly. People haven’t changed; the forces acting on them have.
Take two extremely large groups of people who are paying the same attention to what they eat, and putting the same amount of energy into diet and exercise as each other. If you put one group down in 1953, when relatively few teenagers had cars and practically all of them rode bicycles if their parents could afford to buy them, before fast-food joints and when restaurants served much smaller portions, and the other group down in 2003 when a lot more recreation consists of GameBoys and computers like the one I’m sitting in front of - well, you’ll get one normal-sized group and one heavy group.
Individuals may be responsible for their own choices. If you want Uncle Ernie to lose weight, buy him a gym membership, go on walks with him, cook him healthy meals and teach him to do the same for himself, whatever. Meanwhile, a million somebody elses are having an enormous plate full of food set in front of them at a restaurant. If you want a thinner society, somehow you’ve got to change the macro forces that are throwing more food at people, and causing them to be more sedentary.
I’m not sure how you do that, although I could propose a couple of modest steps in the right direction. But it’s all in what your goal is. If not listening to one particular person bitch about how difficult it is being heavy is your goal, or no longer being that person is your goal, then forget the macro stuff. But if your goal is not being surrounded by lots of overweight people bothers you, you’ve got to push back at the forces that are pushing on all of them. Individuals have volition, but the behavior of a large group doesn’t, really.
It is an oversimplification because it is what worked for you.
Just because it worked for you doesn’t mean it will work for everyone.
No weight control programs or drugs needed. My husband was literally scared thin when he went to the doctor and found out what would happen if he didn’t change his diet and get off his ass. He lost 80 lbs. in 2 months. He does have a thyroid problem but it didn’t keep those pounds from comming off.
Get your doctor to prescribe a diet. It may not be covered by your insurance, but your groceries will be cheaper. Also if you need physical excercise but don’t have access to it, your doctor can get you set up with a physical re-hab facility or a gym. You may also have a medical problem you’re not aware of.
Stay away from the weight loss drugs, even the perscription ones.