You’re right that 40% is an unhealthy level. My goal is 22%. I’m not sure what I’m at right now, but I’ve lost 24lbs.
Celery and air popped corn!? Ick. I’m on Atkin’s, so when I get hungry, I try to eat meat, veggies, cheese or eggs. That’s how I found out that you don’t have to go hungry to lose weight. Of course, as DeVena pointed out, people with a pre-existing kidney condition can’t do Atkins, though a modified low carb diet should still work for the majority of people.
Hey all.
I skipped most of this thread (I know, bad me) because I had a feeling it was going to turn ugly, and I’d get upset if I read most of it, and thus would have a big problem posting what I need to post. It’s probably either already been mentioned or completely off topic, but I’ll say it anyway.
Fat people (and yes, I am one) generally don’t need the advice. We’ve heard it, and either we’ll follow it (and lord, I’m trying), or we won’t. We don’t particularly need sympathy. But we do need a little empathy.
Unlike drinking or drugs, being fat is very visible. 24/7. And it’s something that can be picked on forever. The derisive names are hurtful (although I’m sure you all already knew that). The fact that human beings tend to judge first impressions on appearance makes being fat very difficult. Heck, so often I hear the term ‘fat fuck’, or ‘fatass’, or simply the prefix ‘big, fat, (whatever)’ to indicate something being bad… Well, I don’t think I need to push that line further. It sucks to be fat, just as it sucks to be ugly in any other way. And despite what a few people think, it really is unhealthy.
What am I trying to say? Well, threads like this kinda piss me off. I know what’s wrong with me. I’m trying to get the willpower to do more about it than I do, but it’s very difficult. Hearing the derogratory comments, and seeing how people look at me make it all the more difficult. I’m not defending what I am. I’m just asking for a little consideration for something that, thanks, I already know is bad. I don’t need the derision piled upon me.
And that’s really all I have to say on that.
RTFirefly,
I see where you coming from and I completely agree with what you’re saying, however I think you’ve misinterpreted my point of view slightly. I agree that it’s not people that have changed, but their environment. Like I said cheap cheeseburgers and massive portions are to blame. As is the fact that America is a huge place, requiring cars to go just about anywhere. And like you said less people walk or bike, probably due to more affordable cars and more car loans in the past 50 years. TV and computers are definitely also contributing to rising obesity in America. Obesity is still a problem of personal restraint, there is just more opportunity for our discipline to break down.
I think you put it very eloquently, “Individuals have volition, but the behavior of a large group doesn’t, really.”
However, just because the environment has grown more hostile to personal responsibility does that mean we should tolerate or even encourage the negative side effects?
I also agree with you that those who want to change and believe that their weight problem isn’t insurmountable deserve help. My argument isn’t anti-fat people, it’s against people that believe their obesity is due purely to their genetics and decide to not even bother trying to do something about it. Worse they tell other people they deserve special treatment for their ‘condition.’
I worry about groups that are advocating for a right to be fat, or special accommodation for obese people who aren’t overweight due to a medical condition. It’s one thing to fight against the discrimination of fat people; no group deserves to be unfairly or cruelly disadvantaged. However, I don’t think it’s unfair to make obese people pay so that they aren’t infringing on the rights of air travelers. If you have a medical reason for your obesity clearly it is a disability that should be subsidized and accommodated for by the government and places of business. But, if you are just plain and simple, everyday ordinary, fat, like I used to be you must fund the lifestyle you have chosen for yourself.
Now you might say why would anyone choose to be fat? The reason I did was because the alternative was no more potato chips and ice cream and walking to school instead of taking the bus. Eventually, I grew unhappy with being afraid to take my shirt off and I choose to be thin instead, and thin I’ve stayed. And it hasn’t been a cakewalk. I still have to count calories every day, but like OxyMoron mentions, with time it becomes a routine.
If you want to talk about goals. I think our goals should be both to remove the forces that are making us fatter, and to make sure being fat never becomes a right instead of a personal choice. There has to be personal accountability.
I appreciate your heartfelt and sensible comments ArrrMatey. I do empathize with you and I hope you don’t think I’m intentionally rubbing your nose in a sensitive issue. This thread is about Belrix’s attitude about obesity not yours or DeVena’s.
Goals should be behavior related and not weight related. Establishing sound eating habits and getting exercise are undeniably good for everyone. I recommend seeing a nutritionist rather than a doctor for information on planning what you will eat and when. (Doctors don’t receive as much education in that area as you might think.)
But even under those conditions, not everyone is going to lose weight. Observation without education can lead you down the wrong path in your thinking. Anecdotal information is not terribly helpful either. (Just because something works for you doesn’t mean that it works for everyone else.) What is needed to understand weight loss and obesity is solid research information.
I couldn’t find much research information on the internet. I did find several sites (such as one for women’s health) that underscore that it is not a matter of will power.. From what my internist, psychiatrist, nutritionist and bariatric physician have all said, the latest research is looking into biochemical causes of obesity. They have pretty well dismissed “will power” as being the issue.
Several times I’ve seen obese people compared with alcoholics and drug addicts in their ability or lack of ability to exercise restraint. But keep in mind that the alcoholic in recovery does not have to drink three shots a day. The heroin addict does not have to shoot up three times a day. The obese person actually has to partake daily of the very thing that she or he is addicted to.
I have read reports of obese people who were also addicted to drugs (in this case, heroin) who said that getting off of heroin was a piece of cake compared to maintaining weight loss.
If it is scientifically established that often obesity is caused by biochemical reactions that are not a matter of self-control, then some of you will need to add crow to your diets. 
I have a sneaking suspicion that those people who think that maintaining weight loss is a matter of will power are the same people who think that clinical depression is a matter of attitude.
Losing weight is the easiest part. I had enough will power to drink only liquids for six months and would have done that permanently if the doctor had allowed me to. Once I had to return to an 1100 calorie meal plan, I regained the weight. (And that was with working out at a gym.)
Eventually I chose to have bariatric surgery. At that time (1998) this procedure was not done using a laproscopic method. So perhaps the surgery is not as dangerous as it was then. The bypass that I had was as dangerous as a heart bypass. My surgeon’s bariatric patients were always placed in intensive care directly after the surgery for at least one day, sometimes more.
Fortunately, Medicare covered the surgery because of health related issues and because I had failed to maintain on other programs. My stomach is the size of an egg. I can’t overeat. And yet I regained 20 of the 150 pounds that I lost. I have maintained that weight for a year. Most bariatric surgery patients regain about 1/3 of their weight loss. The psychiatrist that had the surgery done the same time that I did regained all of her weight. For me it worked out well. It was the best thing that I’ve ever done for myself.
Bariatric surgery is only for the morbidly obese. You have to be 100 pounds overweight if you are a woman and, I think, 120 pounds overweight if you are a man – for a reputable surgeon to do the surgery.
In the meantime, I would like to recommend a movie for those who are overweight and really down on themselves for it. The movie is called Real Women Have Curves and has recently been released on DVD. Enjoy!
cal, sometimes when people lose weight, they sometimes lose weight in their brain cells that contol humanity, and mock those who try to lose weight but in vain. Such disparagement is not conducive to those who are trying.
I twisted my ankles over 300 times. I know it is because of the way my weight is distrbuted in my body; but all the same it does make my body totally disinclined to do even moderate exercises including walking, even though I want to.
Yes, I know. What I meant was that there are more factors involved for overweight people than just “stop eating and exercise”.
As many people here have said, they DID diet and exercise, and it got them nowhere.
I have yo-yo’ed myself over the years, but luckily I am one of those for whom the proper type of exercise works.
For people who are uneducated and go to an aerobics class for 6 months and try to eat properly (and their idea of properly being spoon-fed to them by a disapproving spouse or friend who insists that salads and slimfasts are the way to go) thinking that THAT is what one does to “exercise and eat right” and then don’t lose an inch it IS an oversimplification. Not everyone can drop weight by just adding some jogging.
Well, there are a LOT of those type of people. They have tried over and over. They HAVE sweated buckets and been on every diet from the grapefruit to the cabbage soup one and they still haven’t lost weight or gotten in shape.
There are 6 billion people on the planet, it’s ludicrous to think that what works for some people will work for all, and insulting to boot to insist that it’s that they “lack willpower” etc.
That’s what I meant by oversimplification.
For instance, my body will lose fat fairly easily (in a manner of speaking), but it takes some really intense (far more than what most people would have to do, to get there.
I’ve been dancing and doing some form of aerobics and sports (ice skating, swimming, gymnastics) since I was about 10, ergo my body isn’t impressed with jogging or aerobics. Add to that the fact that for women we lose a half a pound of muscle per year after about age 25 and for me, I need to do some serious weight lifting and very intense interval cardio in order to get results.
Luckily I love exercise and know how to do it.
Now, take someone who has the same body type as I do, and does NOT know how to exercise (the diet ninny mentality that says starve and aerobicize yourself to death).
To say to a person like that who has tried, or seems to have tried everything and failed “well, you just need to move your fat ass” IS an oversimplification.
There is a lot more to it than that.
I’ve been teaching PE as an adjunct faculty since 1998, I’ve also taught dance and aerobics at gyms in Anchorage as long ago as back in the 80s (when they didn’t know it was a BAD thing to lie on your back and put your feet over your head).
But, if you want a more scientific explanation of what I’ve said, I’m posting one of my fave sites here (the one I know by heart, lol).
If anyone would like more, I’ll scrounge them from my faves folder and post them.
PS to DeVena? Weight lifting. Go at your own pace, and NO it won’t make you bulky and gross.
Who moi? It wouldn’t be the first time. The feet and the beak are the worst part. 
I’ve said all along that I’m speaking in the absence of hard facts and I’ve requested cites that contradicted my anecdotal opinions. And I will most certainly post an apology if someone can show that most excessive eating is not the result of a personal choice. My question however is, if overeating is a biological condition and not a matter or self control why has it gotten so much worse in this environment of cheap, unhealthy food and sedentary lifestyles, where our will power is tested to a much greater extent than just 50 years ago?
Yes, doing the proper thing healthwise is correct, but too many people leave out and forget the emotional factors behind “WHY is that person having that enormous plate set before them”.
Again, oversimplification. It’s not just the food being yummy, it’s not just that it’s more fun to laze on the couch. There are very frequently deep-seated issues behind these behaviours (and yes, Of COURSE there are also many who just let themselves go and need a simple kick to the ass).
For those with emotional issues, to address the physical needs without addressing the underlying problems which caused the obesity in the first place is like trying to stand up a three-legged stool with one leg missing.
Oh, you can prop it up for a bit, and it might even look as if it would work, but it won’t hold anyone up.
I’m not saying “don’t exercise or eat right” and just keep on making excuses that "you have issues and therefore can’t lose weight.
What I am saying is that those issues are real and valid and don’t deserve to be dismissed with a “boo hoo, get over it, stop eating cookies and go for a jog”. A person can be emotionally supported in their struggles and STILL be taught the “right” way to go about weight loss, withOUT it meaning that you are giving them “permission” to not help themselves.
I’m seeing this issue in a new light given some recent posts including this one.
Food and body image have taken on entirely new meanings in the last century and the last few decades in particular. Fast food, and television coupled with a growing beauty industry deciding what is or isn’t socially desirable have placed a huge psychological stress on us.
I still believe excessive eating is exclusively a psychological phenomenon, but like anorexia nervosa and bulimia nervosa it can be seen as a disease that should be treated not subject to haranguing. I apologize to the board and anyone I offended for my attitude. I don’t mean to get touchy feely in the pit, but I am truly sorry, and I definately feel like a schmuck. So I too think its time to follow Belrix’s suit and bow out of this thread. I think I need to use my ears more and my mouth less on this topic right now.
I’ll leave you with this question, what percentage of the obese population has a psychiatric, chronic, or congenital disorder affecting them and what portion is the result of less severe conditions. Where I’m coming from is that I was a fat kid, and for the longest time I thought I couldn’t do anything about it. It bothers me to hear people say there is nothing most fat people can do about it when I still believe for many of them there is.
ArrrMatey has it right.
I get sick of these threads. I don’t want to talk about why someone is fat. There are a variety of reasons, and frankly, it really isn’t any of your business why someone else is the size they are.
All I want is for people to have the common decency to NOT TREAT A FELLOW HUMAN BEING LIKE SHIT. Is that too much to ask? Apparently it must be. Because it is something (every fat person will tell you) that often happens.
You wanna know why some fat people have a “complex”? They feel they must “explain” themselves? Because asshole jerks are always expecting them to justify their existence or apologize for being seen in public while fat. I mean, really. If you had no idea that people were capable of being so mean-spirited, I am here to tell you that they are. Often are.
And don’t tell me that it’s somehow the fat person’s “fault” because their fatness makes them a target for shitty treatment. I don’t think there’s any excuse for anyone to treat someone else like shit. I don’t think it’s on the victim to change themselves, just so they can be actually treated like a complete human being who is entitled to feelings. Being seen out in public while fat is not a crime, but some people have no problem pointing fingers, yelling insults from cars, or just being flat out mean.
I don’t care what you personally or internally feel about fat people. I don’t give a shit. But don’t ever let yourself be mean, snotty, cruel, condescending towards some stranger who has done NOTHING to you, other than be seen in public while fat. I think people who are deliberately mean to complete strangers are a very low form of life. There’s just no excuse for it.
Just for the record my last intention was to be mean or cruel intentionally, and I tried to keep the issue less broad than ‘all fat shouldn’t be seen in public.’ There still is an unanswered issue, but if the mods think it’s a topic that shouldn’t have been delved into in the first place or that this thread has gotten out of hand and should be locked I can respect that.
That’s true in almost all possible cases. But in fairness, the thread that inspired this one was about overweight people occupying more than one economy size seat on an airplane, thus infringing on their neighbour’s space. In those cases, it becomes someone else’s problem as well.
I fully agree that ridicule and namecalling are possibly the worst things that could happen to an overweight person. Having said that, there’s a degree of truth to the OP, at the very least. Obesity is a problem in many Western societies these days, with the US being the ultimate example. And while I know a percentage of obese people are dealing with medical issues that cause them to be overweight, and while I fully sympathize with any person struggling with their weight (to a small extent, I fall in that category myself), I can see the OP’s need to call a spade a spade, and stress that for at least a very significant portion (if not the majority) of obese people, the problems can be overcome by less intake and more exercize. The mere fact that so many people are obese tells us that not everybody knows this, or that not everybody is realistic enough to see that the most simple solution applies to them, too.
Alas, so many people think that the “most simple solution” is to insult and belittle rather than teach.
No amount of “yeahbutyouhavetoeatlessexercisemore” can overshadow that.
This is a bad thing? Please don’t ever tell my wife, then.
I see, and I apologize.
I’ll jump to the end here:
That’s pretty much where I am, too. When being overweight has consequences (such as not being able to fit in a single airline seat), it’s up to the overweight person to deal with the consequences (in this example, by buying an extra seat or a larger seat, so as to not take up another passenger’s space). But the reasons why we have a lot more fat people than we used to are societal reasons, and we agree that those forces need to be countered at a societal level as well as at the individual level.
Me, too. I’ve been following this debate with interest from the beginning and while I agree with points on both sides, I think things are being oversimplified. Just saying “Well, if you stop eating, you’ll lose weight” or “It’s not my fault I’m fat, it’s my genes.” doesn’t help anyone. There are emotional reasons for being overweight. In my case, I was sexually abused as a child. I didn’t begin gaining weight until middle school, and while a lack of activity did account for some of it, it was only until a few years ago that I realized that it was a protection of sorts as well. If I was overweight, I wouldn’t have to worry about anyone touching me. So while I had emotional reasons for wanting to be thin, those hidden reasons for wanting to be overweight went against that. Since then, I’ve worked past those issues and I’ve gone from being 50 lbs overweight to weighing 125 (a decent weight for my 5’2 height) and now I’m about 20 lbs above that, but nowhere near where I used to be. Right now, my weight is a combination of a horseback riding accident that caused me to become much more immobile than I was before and a comfort level that I’ve reached with my SO, who likes me at this weight because he thought I was ‘too skinny’ at 125. So while I’m not actively making moves to lose the weight, I’m also keeping an eye on my food intake so that I don’t gain anymore either.
Yes, I have known people who are overweight because of admitted laziness and I have known people who were overweight because they were trying to do the same thing that I was to protect themselves, but every story is different. In my case, when I concentrate on it, it’s somewhat easy to lose the weight. A close friend has a much more difficult time of it. And yes, I will admit to seeing morbidly obese people sometimes and thinking “Why don’t they just go on WW and lose some weight?”, but then I have to check myself and remember that everyone’s story is different.
Ava
Wow. Waitaminute… We’re all starting to, like, be civil and agree and stuff… Does this mean we’ll get kicked out of the Pit!!! (Heck, not that I’d -mind- that…)
Gosh, I’m an anti-social bitch in the morning without my coffee.
thx
Uh-oh, not the “you don’t really need the coffee” debate again…