Don’t get me wrong. I wouldn’t die without the coffee. But I’d get a killer headache, and be very snappy and wouldn’t think in a very organized fashion. It’d probably get better with time. But doesn’t any addiction get better with time?
thx
I can understand this. The gym I go to has a “women only” section and strict rules of conduct. I have seen my share of obese people there and, although people might glance at you, you won’t get harrassed.
I’m going to pass a question to a doctor friend I know but are you sure about your numbers? 400 cals should be less than the absolute minimum needed energy required for adult humans.
This site says the minimal calorie intake is 11 calories per pound. Something doesn’t match since VLCD (very low calorie diets) are in the 800 calories per day range.
Even if you didn’t use any calories (impossible) at 400 calories you’d gain 1 pount per 5 days max. How long were your hospital visits?
Oh yeah, I wanted to comment on the coffee thing. I question the whole adiction thing myself (I’m sitting here with a large double double (my normal coffee of the mid-morning) and I take another tea (in the same cup) in the afternoon). I only drink coffee/tea during the week and never on the weekends (and sometimes I forget altogether) and I can’t detect any withdraw (maybe it’s self denial though).
The one thing though is how many people here have seen a large person pick up a double big mac with a diet coke? What the hell is that? Sugar intake, fine, but come on! I can’t see how pop adiction (if that’s what it is) is what’s causing obesity. Unless you’re putting down nothing but a case of pop a day, I figure your weight is not going to be your first problem…scurvy is.
My dad went on a doctor-prescribed diet a few years back, and it was amazing how quickly he lost the weight with virtually no “pain” from not being able to eat. He ate anything he wanted but in MUCH SMALLER PORTIONS. Fried chicken, ice cream, pie, whatever. He doesn’t watch his calories like he used to, but he walks the mall every day (I think it’s about 4 miles). He’s 73 years old and doing well. You don’t have to be miserable…just sensible.
Badmana, take a look at the nutritional information on a can or bottle of soda next time you get the chance. The non-diet versions run about 150-300 calories per serving from what I’ve seen. Multiply that across 2-3 drinks a day and it’s a pretty good chunk of calories.
I like this discussion, it’s actually a discussion.
I think one point we can all agree with is that too much fat is unhealthy. In fact, with that new study out linking obesity to cancer, fat is suddenly scary.
But I think a lot of overweight people don’t realize that many skinny people do battle with obesity every day. I had a hummingbird metabolism for years. Due to this, I eat like a horse, hell I could eat a horse if I were into that. Very recently however, my metabolism has slowed down. My usual eating habits started to make me gain weight. My solution for this was, instead of decreasing my eating, I increased my exercise. I walk 5 miles 3 times a week, Without this, I’d be well on my way to being fat. With this, I am skinny and you would never recognize that I do battle with it on a daily basis.
I think this is true for many of us ‘skinny’ people over 30…(I’m almost 29…)
Funny, I had a similar discussion with my wife last night. I’m about 6’ tall and about 180 pounds. In high school. I would eat 5 McDonald’s hamburgers as a mid-evening snack (after a full dinner). Never gained an ounce. Since then, the metabolism dropped. Yes, everyday I do “battle” with food choices. I don’t eat alot of the things I really like - heck, I have fried chicken only once a year. Sacrifice-yes, easy-somewhat, happy-you bet.
And I also don’t think a lot of people realize just exactly how bad fast food is for us. According to McDonald’s own site, a “value meal” is about a thousand calories. For one damn meal! I’m not sure who was complaining that one of those would be their entire daily calorie allowance, but no shit to that. I eat daily:
a bowl of instant oatmeal in the morning - 130 calories
a lean cuisine meal for lunch - never more than 300 calories.
an apple - 35 calories
and a sensible dinner. Usually a meat, starch, and vegetable. Probably about 700 calories all total.
sometimes an evening snack of a bag of microwave popcorn - 220 calories.
So in one meal at McDonald’s, a person can eat almost more calories than I do in an entire day. Does that mean that you’ll never see me eating fast food? No, but then I run my ass off every day, so that I can sometimes enjoy extras. I run about 35 miles a week. I hate running. With a passion, but I hated weighing 240lbs too. Also, a lot of the fast foods we eat are so high in fat, it’s crazy. A good guide that the nutritionist gave me was no more than 3 grams of fat per 100 calories. So that’s what I try to live by.
Just like others have said, it is a daily struggle. I have to run every day. I have to pass on stuff all the time. That doesn’t mean that I can’t indulge myself sometime, I just can’t eat whatever I want all the time.
And while I can see the point about society’s standards having changed, I do not believe that the answer is to look at changing the way society as a whole functions. I firmly believe that individuals need to step up and take action for themselves. I can see that there are psychological reasons for some people to over eat, but then those are some of the same reasons that people do drugs, or drink to excess. And I have little sympathy for them as well. You put yourself in that position, get yourself out. Not saying that the support shouldn’t be there, but the responsibility needs to be yours. I do firmly believe that people should not be hateful, or hurtful, I cannot ever, ever recall myself using derogatory remarks towards someone that is overweight. I’m not going to say that I haven’t thought them to myself, but I treat everyone with dignity, and courtesy, until such time as they demonstrate that they are not deserving of either.
I am obviously not any sort of councilor, or psychologist, but I think that it is a better idea by far to treat weight issues separately from emotional issues. If a person is eating because they have emotional problems, help them with that first, then work on the diet. Putting too much onto a person at one time is just setting them up for failure. Help them through one issue, then turn and concentrate on another.
Oh I agree with that. I wanted to point out that since you’re already drinking something very unhealthy for you, whatever you’re eating with the coke with is probably not a salad (and if it is…that’s just insane).
One of the main problems is that I think you missed the point of thismany peoples posts. I’m not gonna pull a statistic out of my ass but I will simply say that for a large portion of really fat people, the most simply solution doesn’t apply to them. Case one: the fat people who are just lazy. there are a lot, but not the majority I believe. Case Two: fat people for whom the simple solution applied to them. They are no longer obese, so they won’t be standing out. and Case three the people for whom the simple solution doesn’t work.
I am a fat guy in a world of fat people. Not a goddamn one of them hasn’t tried 3 or four diets. And I would guess 90 percent of them tried ‘moving their ass around’. First of all being heavy for years really fucks up your ankles and knees. Walking for 20 minutes a day is and will always be excrutiating for many obese people. It also fucks up the back, which also makes the simply 20 minutes of exercise a day a serious trial. Some of them walk for an hour every day, and take a medical diet. and in net have gone from 340-260, and just can’t lose anymore, while maintaining a functional lifestyle.
It may seem innoculous to say that the simple solution to weight loss is diet and exercise, but it does hurt. For the people unable to use your simple system, it just makes them feel more discouraged and freakish than they already feel. I just don’t honestly believe that there are many obese people at all who havn’t made a serious investment in time, money, and emotion to get in shape. They may be misinformed as to how best apply that time and money toward getting into shape, but implying that they are just to stupid to have tried the simple way is incredibly insulting.
The body needs very little energy everyday. Average women need 1500 and average men need 1800.
I have never experienced anyone go on a good weight loss program and not have success when they stuck to the program. When the program fails, it’s because the person failed themselves.
Additionally, it’s the ‘maintenance part’ that kills most diets (and where fat people become fatter). Very few people have the self control to count up to 1500 cals and Stop. It’s the life change people fail at. The reward for eating far outweighs the consequences of stopping at a healthy limit…in their minds…at the moment of consumption.
Exercise barely compensates for bad eating decisions. Why? Because the body is VERY efficient when it comes to cals. Want to lose 1.5 pounds of body fat via exercise? THEN RUN TWO FULL MARATHONS!!
Want to work off a big meal at the Outback? Run 1.5 Marathons!
Fat people are somewhat forgiven if they have never been armed with information…the truth about eating and how exercise is not a way to eat and get away with it. We need a platry amount of cals to live. 15-1800! That is IT.
Once we effectively educate everyone and debunk the excuses about slow metabolisms and ‘born to be fat’ nonsense, then we can start being tough on people for knowing better but not acting on the information to stay in shape.
Though I am by no means large enough that you would notice me doing this, I am guilty of ordering fatty food with a diet soda. There are two reasons behind this:
1.) It’s an extra 200+ calories that can be cut out easily and painlessly.
2.) I really freakin’ hate regular soda. It’s too damn sweet, and it leaves a coating in my mouth. I might want the fat, but I’ll be damned if you make me drink that sugar-laden crap with it. I’d rather go hungry.
…hm. I see a weight loss plan coming on ;).
You didn’t seem to me as if you were being overly cruel etc. You had valid questions and arguments (IMHO)
As to your question, good question. I think that overweight people saying “there’s nothing I can do about it” is probably almost as much an oversimplification as “normal” people saying "hey! just drop that cookie, and go to an aerobics class.
But to answer your question in part, emotional issues do NOT necessarily mean that the person in question has a “psychiatric” condition etc.
What it does mean is that those issues, until properly dealt with can cause the overweight person to be unsuccessful and then consequently, (especially after many many grueling attempts) to feel hopeless and say “there’s nothing I can do about it”. Normal people hearing this and without the benefit of knowing the overweight person’s health history and series of attemps and failures are often WAY too quick to judge and scoff “hey, eat a salad, go for a jog”.
What they, the overweight person, really means is, “I have no idea what to do about it, I’ve tried everything, and nothing has worked, and I’m discouraged and have given up etc”.
That’s where people like me (hopefully!) come in. We help educate, withOUT judgmental attitudes, people on how to help themselves.
As a person who has to watch my weight carefully and who really has to “work it” myself, I very much understand the frustrations of people who haven’t got a clue about weight lifting, fitness, how our metabolisms work etc.
What these people need is solid information and education, not “attitude”.
And hey, if there are some overweight people who are just plain fine with it? Who are we to judge? How does it hurt us?
[OT]I make ice cream floats with low carb ice cream and vanilla diet Cokes. (BTW, if you love vanilla (diet) Coke, you have got to try a float with it!) If you were counting calories, it would be about 100 calories total (1/2 cup of ice cream).[/OT]
In an article I read some time ago, someone partially blamed the increasing obesity epidemic in the country on the artificial low fat foods available like this: Hm, this Ben & Jerry’s is 400 calories / half cup, but this Fat Free brand is 150 calories per half cup. So I’ll eat 1.5 cups of the fat free stuff instead of half a cup of Ben & Jerry’s.
I used to eat a can of lower fat Pringles in a single sitting. I could almost eat an entire box of Wheat Thins. Dinner was usually a Hamburger Helper, of which my husband and I would each have about 2 servings and put the remaining serving up for leftovers (makes dinner about 700-800 calories each).
It’s not that I didn’t want to lose weight. I really tried to eat as little as I could without starving. I certainly exercised enough. But it’s that I really didn’t know what I should be doing. I didn’t realize that there’s no real difference between Wheat Thins and Oreos as far as your body is concerned. I didn’t realize that eating white bread (you know, the squooshy oozy kind that makes great pb&j sandwiches?) isn’t too different from just spooning sugar into your mouth. I honestly did not know.
I tried to eat a limited calorie diet (1700). That lasted all of two weeks, and I didn’t lose a thing and was starving. I tried to eat low fat. I ate about 4 oz of meat a day, convinced I was doing the healthy thing. Gained weight steadily, and I was frustrated. After all, why the hell was I doing all this exercise, if I was just getting fatter than everyone around me who wasn’t doing a damn thing?
I’ve finally learned to eat right and keep my blood sugar levels stable, eliminating false hunger pains and the sleepy feeling after eating too much bad for you foods. I’ve finally started losing weight. It’s painless, but it’s not easy. It requires willpower. (Before everyone jumps on me for that, I don’t have real psychological reasons for eating. I snack out of boredom or habit.) I may not crave simple carbohydrate foods any longer, but that doesn’t mean I’ve forgotten what they taste like. I have to remind myself that I really, really don’t need those foods, and being healthy is better than eating them.
But it took me years before I was able to learn how to do it.
Lately, I’ve been getting a bit too “rotund”. I eat salad (as much as I want) a few days a week, cut back to beer only 2-3 days a week (as opposed to every damn nite) and ride the excercise bike maybe 2-3 times a week, but not regularly.
Lose about a pound a day, till I get to “normal” (still too fat, but not uncomfortable) then maintain.
Can’t get any easier.
Fagjunk Theology: Not just for sodomite propagandists anymore.
My personal dieting plan:
I eat most of my carbs for the day in the morning. I eat bagels or yogurt with granola or cereal. Also a medium coffee with cream.
Lunch is usually Subway or Blimpie. No chips. Ice tea.
Afternoon snack–Skittles.
Dinner–Meat of some kind. No side dishes or bread. Sometimes I have vegetables, but no potatoes or starch. I usually grill a t-bone or some chicken or something.
That’s it. Then I do the treadmill 3x a week for 30 min. I also cut alcohol completely out of my diet, which has made a huge difference. In the six weeks that I haven’t drank I’ve probably lost 10 pounds without even trying.
Now, don’t get me wrong. I still eat junk sometimes, but I try to keep it to a minimum. Occasionally I still eat ice cream or McDonalds, just not very often. I should try to eat more veggies, but it’s an inconvenience.
Yes, sugar intake. Or, more generally, carbohydrate intake.
I am a diabetic. I am entirely diet controlled, and it is working well for me. I’m very lucky in this regard, but I need to eat a certain amount of carbohydrates at each meal. I can’t eat much less, and I can’t eat much more. Either one of those will have consequences.
If I am out with my sister and she wants to go to McDonalds for supper, that’s fine. It took me a long time to be confident enough to eat out again after I was diagnosed. My sisters and mother kept at me, helping me adjust, taking me out and showing me that I can do it - I owe my present self-confidence to them. I can find something pretty much anywhere that will suit my needs.
So I order a hamburger and a diet soda. Why? because I feel like a hamburger, it suits my needs and I want to have a soda with my meal. There are so many carbohydrates in a coke that if I want a soda and order a coke, pretty much that’s my supper.
End result, you are in McDonalds, and you see a fat person order a hamburger and a diet coke. You think bad thoughts.
But seriously, what are you ordering at McDonalds? A salad and a spring water?
The thing that really makes me mad about things like this is that some people look at what I am eating because I am fat, and even if they are eating the same thing they think badly of me for it. They think that they know my whole diet - my whole life, really.
Me, I’m just trying to survive here. When you look at me and see a woman who weighs 250 lbs., you don’t know that I’ve lost 70 lbs. since last March. You have no way of telling. I still get the comments and the looks, because I’m still fat.
When do you think it will stop? When I’m 220 lbs? 180? 150? How long do strangers get to pass judgement on me because I have to have a diet soda when I want something to drink in a fast food place?
I can’t believe anyone would actually make a comment. I would probably have a meltdown if someone commented about something I was eating.
Okay, so just to share. Today I found myself really watching it. No ‘extras’ with lunch, just some chicken. And yeah, I wanted more. But you know what the hell the telling sign was? I started gnawing on my fucking FINGER. Not like eating it per se, but I found myself chewing on the tip of my own index finger. This is how psychologically stuck I am on having -something- to eat. Scares the piss outa me.
Cite? Because I have a LOT of information to the contrary. I am an “average” woman and I eat a LOT more than 1500 calories a day, and that’s on my LOSING diet, on maintenance, I can eat a bit more even.
Again, if the calorie deficit, that means the difference between what your body naturally burns per day, and what you take in, is too great, your body WILL go into “starvation mode,” shut down the metabolism, and turn to the muscle tissue (at a ratio of about 8 pound of muscle for every 10 scale pounds lost, IIRC), for the energy it needs.
I have already posted just ONE of my cites in this thread in support of my statement above. Please provide one of yours?