And it is not only the US. IMHO the problem is MUCH worse among middle and high class people in developing and under-developed countries. While some in the US and other western countries close their eyes to what happens outside here most the middle and high class close their eyes to what happens in front of their own noses.
Nobody wants to see the ugliness of the world. Some downright refuse to see it.
Of which I don’t know enough about, I have to say.
Suburbanite checking in. First, I agree that the OPs neighbors may very well care deeply about various issues, and just not be talking about them while hanging out at the mailbox. Many folks prefer to keep their opinions to themselves (for example, I never participate in political threads here, but I certainly have opinions!). Or they may only talk about politics/major issues with close friends.
I live in a middle-class suburb, and though my neighbors have more SUVs than I am personally comfortable with, the ones I’ve gotten to know fairly well are all quite nice people with concerns and whatnot. (I also can’t remember any long conversations about furniture; but when you run a home, furniture and all that sort of thing are of interest, since you’re hopefully trying to establish a warm, friendly home where people feel comfortable and welcome–while also allowing the kids to jump around and have some fun. Drains, floors, and whether the oven works are also of interest, since we have to keep things clean and people fed.) I’ve been pleasantly surprised to hear some of the unexpected observations coming from neighbors, showing me that I shouldn’t make assumptions about what people are thinking about.
Overall, I would say that my friends and neighbors do concern themselves with a wide range of issues. Some of them talk about those things more freely than others. Our primary and most vocal concerns do tend to be the state of our children and what the heck we’re going to fix for dinner, but all of those things are in fact an investment in the future. One of the most important things I can actually do for the world on a daily basis, in a practical way, is to take care of my family in the best way I can, and to teach my children the best I know, so that they can add to the world and help others.
We don’t know what causes our neighbors quietly contribute to; we don’t know what they’re thinking or what problems they may have. Perhaps some of them are self-absorbed; perhaps not. It’s not my job to mentally castigate them for not living up to my standards. All I can do is live my life the way I think best, and let them do the same.
Thanks for the responses, folks. Someone saw arrogance in my opening post, but my attitude is anything but. I’m dismayed by the total disconnect, the insularity, the cavalier dismissal (or acceptance?) of the world we live in. Sorry to say, the issue is not one of “big issues taking a back seat to the more immediate issues.” I’m talking about wholesale self-absorption–the latest SUV/sports car, the diamond ring, the vacation to the Caribbean, the petty jealosies, the keeping up with the Joneses.
Might it instead be an issue of me simply underestimating my neighbors and not connection with their inner thoughts/concerns. I don’t think so, because I know them quite well. Few read newspaper/news magazines, watch/listen to news broadcasts, read anything other than who-dunnits or Danielle Steele type novels. The guys–I’m talking men here–play video games at home and treat themselves
to the latest action flicks. The women talk about the latest acquisitions: cars, clothes, furniture, jewelry, etc. There seems a total disconnect with the world at large. I think what disturbs me is the lack of outrage–even tempered outrage–at injustice around the globe. Some may say: Why fret/care if fretting or caring is pointless? But this lack of connection, of care and common cause stuns me.
I’m not suggesting we form a parliament and hash over the pressing issues of the day, but how about a little concern/interest about the world at large? I also think the attitude that “baby needs changing” and “boss needs me at work Monday” is a copout. I’m talking about complete and utter provinciality.
Cardinal, I was just going to ask your age, but I just saw that you live far far far away from me.
Just so you know, the type of woman you’re looking for does exist - I do believe I’m one. 
Straw man.
I didn’t say we were a think tank or that the USA were imbeciles. I think the “imbecile” name throwing is left currently to people in the GD forum who think that they’re so obviously right on everything that only sudden and mass retardation can explain Bush’s election.
This is NOT a community representative of the "normal’ world.
Just for starters, you have to have a computer capable of a decent connection, and the money to pay for the connection. It’s easy to think that everyone is like you, but they’re not like me either. I teach in a neighborhood where basically all the kids speak English, but I called through one period’s phone numbers and found that only about half of them have a computer at all. This isn’t the inner city by any means, either. One of my student’s father is buying the Interstate Battery warehouse he manages, just as one datum.
You have to have heard of the books or the site, or have been led here by a burning question, or something. Then, you have to stay. I’ve told SO many friends about this site and even gotten a few signups, but I’m the only one who’s interested enough to stay. You really have to want to discuss and learn to be here regularly. Personally, I love the place. I bought the original book in '88 and am a class of '99 Doper.
You have to be able to hold your own in an argument and not be a total putz. (This rule is relaxed a little if you’re voting for Kerry. It’s the same on other boards, who forgive vagueness and give wide support to other topics, so that’s not quite the slam it sounds like.)
Summing up: The mindset of the regulars here is not representative. You’ll notice how many blue-collar workers we have here. It’s way under the norm. This is a white-collar work-with-your-mind type of board generally. I’d bet that a very small percentage of this board tests under the IQ median (yes, I know the arguments about IQ tests. I’ll even make them if you really want).
Uh, guys? WHY are we not talking about me?! 
I’m sorry I was being a smartass and totally forgot to post what I meant to…
I live around people like this.
I’ll tell you what REALLY crack me up is how a lot of these folks like the throw “Get-Togethers” or parties for some of the stupidest reasons ever.
I don’t dare say this to any of them but half of those parties are only thrown by the host to gauge their popularity. In other words, the more people show up the better they did.
And they don’t mind TELLING you (repeatedly) when they had a good turn out… :rolleyes:
They also don’t mind telling you the faults in other peoples parties they happen to be attending…
I should add that it’s important to separate the feeling of separateness from a feeling of superiority. Acting superior is only going to get you/me in trouble. I do have trouble in valuing intellect over most other things, and it leads me into devaluing people for essentially the same thing as being born short (and I’m 5’8" on a good day).
You are correct of course that this board isn’t a perfect cross section of the US, simply by virtue of requiring an internet connection and a computer. On the other hand, ALL it requires is the internet and a computer. I have been here long enough to see just about every political view or opinion expressed here. It may not be representative of the entire US, but it certainly is representitive of upper-middle class suburbia.
So once again, I would hesitate using one’s SDMB credentials to set oneself apart from “middle America”.
Oh and by the way, crying “straw man” does not lend weight to your argument.
See…some people for some bizarre reason like to socialize with other people. They have these things called “parties” where they all get together. Why, I even went to a few this weekend and I don’t even particularly like people. These reason - a new appartment, a birthday, holiday, whatever - is incidental.
Ain’t that the truth.
I have long been suspect that the reason why we have to learn about The Arts, Deep & Meaning Books, Fat Women Singing at Full Tonsil is because we are supppose to care and this supports the colleges. so, everyone is getting an education but no one knows how to fix a toilet or, worse, won’t because it is beneath them. No one I know likes Deep and Meaningful books or Opera. I like opera, not that I understand one word of it. I love classical music, but couldn’t tell you who composed what ( except Mozart because he is everywhere, man.) Art is something I really like as I grew up with an artist mom, but everyone else seems to hang dentist office artwork on their walls. :eek:
It is all so very sad.
What blows my mind is how geographically ignorant so many people are. Even and MOSTLY about their own country. I can understand not knowing most of the African Nations or South American nations, but not knowing that New Mexico was a state or that with Alaska you don’t need a passport to get too, just makes me want to cry.
:wally
Carnac, and everyone in this situation, have you considered making gentle, neutral probes as conversation openers, relating to current events and stories recently covered in the news & papers, eg:.
-Nice weather we’re having, no? Looks like the big push is finally coming in Fallujah, hunh?..
-Did you see the article in the pape this morning? There’s a study that just published that actually shows… a) more global warming in Arctic… b) newly discovered benefit of breast feeding for mothers etc. etc.
-Hmm, I wonder if there will be any major changes to the cabinet after this election. Have you heard anything?
What do you think would happen if you tried it? What happened when you did?
Current events are a major source of conversation item for our family, and for my coworkers and I. We talk about local, national, and international stuff, from the mundane to the important stuff. It’s a good way of staying off topics related to work, and talking too much about your kids…
I think this overall phenomena explains a lot about how the democrats lost this year. They put forth the correct arguments and had the backing to prove themselves correct but America in general responded with a “Doesn’t affect me, I don’t care. Give me some more tax cuts so I can go get some more stuff.”
The dems can spell it out for them but they don’t want to listen. “Deficit? That’s not for me to worry about. Iraq? That’s so far away it doesn’t concern me, besides I don’t even know anyone fighting over there. Just don’t bring it into my backyard, I just laid down some sod.”
I live in suburbia. A large portion of my neighbors have children, ages infant to high school, and we all have very similar concerns: groceries, diapers (will my daughter ever get potty-trained?), utilities (natural gas is expensive), property taxes (ours went up 50% last year), taxes in general, school for the kids (both kids in preschool!), saving for kids’ college, paying kids’ medical bills (my son has a life long condition that causes us worry), fixing the car (needs maintenance!), remodelling the kitchen/bathroom/bedroom/basement (pipe dream it seems), working in the yard/mowing the grass (we like the house to look nice, for us, and the neighbors) , not getting laid off from my job (that would be scary), repairing the “thing” that’s broken on the house (it’s always something) and a host of other things.
For me, a lot of these issues are tied to larger questions, for instance, how does the war Iraq affect gas prices (for our minivan), how does our minivan affect the local air quality? We can’t just do without it. What will Pres Bush’s second term do for rising health care costs? What will happen with my employers health plan?
Seeing that I am often quite busy with the family, when we get together with friends, it’s not to discuss “big” issues. It’s a birthday party, not a debate. I’ve also found that this particular election has given rise to some strong opinions on my part, I am unused to it and I’m not sure how to handle disagreements. Which happens not infrequently, even in my own home! It’s easier to to let it go, read about it on the internet and around here, or in the paper, form my own opinions and discuss the issues, well, infrequently.
Maybe if I cared more, or maybe less, or if I was more organized, or smarter, I could have weighty discussions with my neighbors about Important Topics. But I’m not, I’m just like I am, and right now, that’s busy and frustrated.
So Carnac, sorry to disappoint you. I am self absorbed, but not like you think.
I’m fine that people might not like to discuss international news or politics… or debate about science, arts, news or something intelectually stimulating. A lot of my friends are like SMDB and are not out of tune with the world. (I’m not american… I’m from Brazil)
… but when I go out with my brother and some of his friends that are slightly younger than I am (I’m 32)… and all they talk about is the nice gym they found, salaries, jobs and neat stuff for their home. Its very wierd. Young people who have no idea of what is happening beyond their little world is wierd. They have no diapers to change or gruelling work schedules either.
Sorry if it sounds patronizing... but ignorance is bliss... they are sure happier for it...So are you trying to say that we need to know about books and opera or how to fix a toilet? I’ve always failed to see why knowing classical music or classic books meant squat. As for fixing a toilet, exactly how much are we supposed to know? There is no way to learn everything so people pick and chose what they want to learn and what they are interested in.
Does it really matter what people like? Music, books, TV, movies, all those don’t mean much in the end. Plus how do you know that some of the newer books don’t have deep meanings to them? You’ve even said it yourself that you like classical music yet you know little about it so for you it’s background noise, much like the “dentist office” artwork. Perhaps that type of artwork speaks to them? I don’t like classical art at all and I’ve been to a number of the big museums around the world. Art just doesn’t do it for me for the most part so I don’t to learn about, nor do I see a real reason to.
Tell me, how much do you know about Idaho, or Vermont, or New Mexico, or any of the other states that are not close to you? The US is huge, bigger then what most people seem to think it is. It would take most people a few days, 4-5 to drive from east to west, and 2-3 days from north to south. And even doing that you still wouldn’t see much of the US. Most people only know what’s going on around them, why do you really need to know the minor things that go on in the rest of the US? Do you really care that a court house burned down here in Maryland last week?
The reason that Europeans seem to know so much more is because in the same amount of time it would take, less actually, to go east to west or north to south you would pass through a number of different countries and cultures. That’s why it seems that many Europeans are smarter then us. Ask most Europeans and they don’t know where many of the states are.
Also, you might need a passport to get to Alaska, if you are driving they might want one going into and out of Canada.
I find so much of what’s going on in the world to be deeply depressing and upsetting, and I really don’t believe that anything I personally could do would make any difference to any of it. I’m not a joiner or an activist- the closest to political I am comfortable getting is voting and giving money to the people giving away political bumper stickers and registering voters. I avoid discussing politics, though, because I hate getting into arguments (well, I enjoy a fun argument over something trivial, but not a real argument over something important).
I do have interests outside of my own life, but they don’t really have anything to do with the larger world as it is today, either. I’m a medieval history buff, and am interested in science, particularly astronomy. I just tend only to discuss those interests with others who I know share them, because I have learned that most people aren’t interested in discussing those things.
This OP is awesome and should win an award! If only some Presidential candidate would run with a platform to turn the clock back and stop the rat race from pushing us further and futher in the wrong direction! Well, I can dream and remember how it was not so long ago, either. Sadly, today’s kids, teens, and yuppies hardly know no other lifestyle than being a slave to the mighty dollar.
Not saying things were perfect, but overall it was close enough for me! When people were real, unlike today where people are as plastic as their credit cards.
I think I was the tail-end of the last generation to know what it means to work hard and do chores around the house, earn an allowance, and save up little by little for that special toy or whatever that I really wanted. I wore hand-me-downs from friends. Several of my bicycles were hand-me-downs, too. And, I was glad to have it. We weren’t rich, wer weren’t poor…we were comfortable. We appreciated what we have. We knew how to take care of our things, too. And,
we were raised to do things for others less fortunate than ourselves. We were raised with values and a lot of self-respect for others, esp. teachers and adults.
For me, that all ended in 1980 when the “Me-Generation” seemed to have taken over. They say no man is an island, but I sure felt like I was on my own little island…not by my choice, mind you, but by an America idolizing brand names.
I feel like the Last of the Mohecans raised this way because all around me were spoiled brats who cared more about what label was on your ass than you, as a person. And, I wonder…how the hell were their parents raised? Were they raised by pigs? They were my classmates, but not one could appreciate what they had. Not one could stop and think about the world around them. Material goods became more important than being a good person. I felt very alone.
America lives her life vicariously through TV and Hollywood which dictates how our lives should be. It brain-washes us that we MUST go to the mall. We must buy overpriced items at places with high overhead and the like. If it’s a little used, just throw it away. We’re a plastic, disposable society.
I tell ya, looking back over time, it might have been a harder life for those before me, but I envy them. People were more genuine, overall. People cared. It was a more meaningful life, a fuller life. Not a selfish life. And if they were all alive today, they’d be ashamed of how we now have every luxury we could ever want, every machine to make our lives easier* while throwing away everything of real importance and growing more self-centered and out of touch with others esp. those in need.
*Easier, but that came a big pricetag of just making our lives more demanding.
Yup, the OP is spot on. My wife and I spent five years living in suburbia in North Carolina and in all that time we never had a decent conversation with any of our neighbors. All they wanted to talk about was lawn care and the local sports teams and the things they bought at the local superstores.
When we relocated to LA a few years we vowed not to move into another bland suburb in the hinterlands, even though it meant giving up on buying a house. Now when we take our kids to birthday parties and hang out with the other parents we actually talk. About art and politics and world events, movies we’ve seen, books we’ve read, places we’ve travelled to. Our new neighbors are intellectually and culturally engaged in ways that none of our old neighbors were.
And no, it’s not a matter of free time. My wife and I have far less free time for intellectual pursuits now that we’re both working fulltime. In our old neighborhood there were a lot a stay-at-home moms, whereas most of our new friends are in two-career families. The “we’re just too busy with family” argument is a crock. Most people just don’t want to look beyond their day-to-day business.
BTW, it’s not like we wanted to talk about opera or abstract impressionism or anything esoteric … although that would have been nice too. My wife and I can (and have) spent hours discussing subjects as low-brow as the architecture of Disneyland or the different political subtexts of the different Star Trek series. High or low, it’s all human culture and there’s something interesting or important to discover in almost anything if you’re willing to look.
Most people aren’t willing to look though.
And when the big crash comes … those folks are gonna be gobsmacked … .