There have been certain cultures, oh, say Europe in the Middle Ages, where fat was actually considered a thing of beauty. The paintings of Reubens come to mind. The women, if you’ll notice, are more than a few pounds overweight, they’re obese, but then they were considered beautiful. Cultural standards tend to glamorize whatever is a mark of wealth. The poor are malnourished and emaciated? Well, they’re ugly. The ones with enough money to be fat must be the pretty ones.
It’s not just weight. The same principal applies to stuff like tanning. Tanned skin looks great on a woman, right? Not always. In the 19th century, only poor women who had to work outside in the sun were tanned. Beautiful, wealthy women stayed inside and nurtured their lovely white skin. Then, when most working people were working indoors, only the rich had time to lay around soaking up rays. So now pale is ugly, tan is pretty. You guys see where I’m going with this, so I’ll climb off my soapbox.
That said, I think there’s a real difference between someone not being very attractive and being ugly. Yeah, morbid obesity, rotting teeth, etc., don’t do it for me. But neither do huge bulging muscles on guys. Usually I only wind up using the word ugly about someone’s attitude or behavior.
BTW, most historians agree that Cleopatra, the most beautiful woman in the world, was pretty fat.
CrazyCatLady
Eating refined sugar or using tobacco products are also signs of ill health. Indeed, being in a hospital bed following a stroke is a sign of ill health.
But someone in a hospital bed following a stroke is not per se ugly.
Standards of beauty have varied throughout the years.
Take a look at this piece and this one. Would you say these women are ugly?
How about this Rembrandt? The model for this was supposedly Rembrandt’s wife, and although the fashions of the time were voluminous, it’s clear there’s plenty of woman under the dress. Is she ugly?
Even Our Lady, in Velazquez’s vision of how the visit of the Magi must have looked at the Epiphany, shows her as plump.
So - you tell me. Which of the above ladies are ugly to you? Be honest.
Man there sure are a lot of pissed off fat people in here!
Not only is obesity really REALLY ugly, but it’s also often indicative of a person who either doesn’t want to or doesn’t know how to practice good health habits… which is even MORE disgusting than their hideous appearance.
Tired of people referring to your slovenly billows of lard as ugly? Then find a little self-respect, lose some weight, and stop attacking those of us who repect ourselves enough to keep healthy.
Oh… and don’t have any kids ever… please… they’ll only make fun of you-- or turn out ultra-fat themselves.
red_dragon, for me, the difference is context.
If he said in a turnoff thread, “You know, big women just don’t do it for me. Mind you, I’m not attractive to sticks either, I like a healthy balance,” I wouldn’t have given it a second though.
But opening a Pit thread in order to broadcast to the world that not only does he find big women repulsive, he thinks that everybody else should as well, is crossing the line.
Do you see a difference between, “They don’t do anything for me” and “They are ugly hideous monsters”?**
**[sub]I know he didn’t say so in so many words, so don’t come in here and say, “give me an exact quote.” It’s what he meant. [/sub]
Yes, we’ve heard it all before. We know what diseases that can come from obesity. But, in your little brain, have you ever thought that many obese people suffer from medical conditions that brought them to this stage? What about the possibility that genetics have something to do with it?
You probably think that we sit on our asses all fucking day downing bags of Doritos, quarts of ice cream, and cases of beer while watching soap operas? I’m sure there are a percentage that do this, and yes, obesity is a fair consequence to those who chose to live like that. But what about women who suffer from PCOS, or people who suffer from insulin resistance? What about people who have to take certain medications that cause serious weight gain? Have you ever taken that into consideration?
Of course not Javamaven, why would something like that occur to him? That would actually recquire some sort of logical thought process, and honestly, I don’t think he’s capable of that.
But he didn’t say, “I find it unattractive when people are fat…” or even, “I think it’s ugly when people are fat.”
He said, “Fat is ugly.” He doesn’t present this as a case of his own opinion, or his personal turn-ons or turn-offs. No, he states a fact, applicable, so far as we can see, to the entire world, past, present, and future.
And I don’t agree. I’ve said many times before on this board that I find women like Calista Flockhart and Lara Flynn Boyle to be decidedly unattractive - and not the least bit suitable for fantasy material; I can only imagine breaking them by accident in bed. I don’t say they’re ugly - merely that I don’t find them attractive in the least. I much prefer a WOMAN, someone with meat as well as bones, someone who isn’t afraid to get sweaty and vigorous and downright bouncy. Making love to one of those stick creatures, in my mind, would be like riding an English bicycle down the middle of railroad tracks. There would be nothing fun about it; it’d be like f–king an undernourished boy from some underdeveloped country.
But hey - someone must like 'em. Probably MGibson and his ilk. And welcome to 'em, he is.
I’m gonna be unpopular, but I believe MGibson has some valid points.
Obesity is unattractive. It is also unhealthy. Being a few pounds over isn’t bad, and you don’t have to be a stick thin model, but chronic obesity is bad for you on all levels. I will not pretend that weighing hundreds and hundreds of pounds is a good and healthy state for any human, even if it hurts your feelings.
So you (or your partner) is a bit chunky? Cool, that’s fine if you take care of yourselves and exercize regularily. But being so overweight that it threatens your health is not good. Being so thin that it threatens your health is also not good.
There. Have I made it gentle enough for those with easily bruised egos? As a precaution, I’m strapping on my crash helmet anyway.
Come on people, not everybody in the entire world can be sext or one of, “the beautiful people.” Certain things make people attractive, certain traits do not. There is no single overriding factor that judges someone’s attractiveness. I can appreciate that some people have certain body types that they look good in. I know a lot of girls in my class that are on the heavy side, with curvy bodies, and some of them do look good. I have skinny girls in my class, and some of them look good. Some don’t. But morbidly obese is simply not attractive. Acne is not attractive. Crooked teeth are not attractive. A whiny voice is not attractive. Some people have faces that just aren’t attractive. Old age is not attractive. A person’s gender can be unattractive. I’m sorry. If people have these characteristics, I am not saying that these people are not good or worthwile human beings. I;m not saying that they should be shunned or ignored. What’s on the inside DOES matter. But when it comes to sexual relationships, sexy is good. Big people can be sexy, so can skinny people. When taken to extremes, both of these characteristics will hurt a person’s attractiveness.
So many of you are so ready to complain about how shallow MGibson is. How many of you have really demonstrated such an interest with what is on the inside? How many of you have dated an 80 year old, obese person with acne, crooked teeth, and a whiny voice and chronic subcutaneous infections of your own sex (or the opposite sex if you normally go for your own)? There are people with beautiful personalities and all of these characteristics out there. How many of them have you dated?
You are just as shallow in your dating preferences as MGibson, but there is nothing wrong with looking at a person’s body as well as personality before you date them.
threemae - I guess my wife’s grandparents are out of luck, them being over 80 and all. I’ll call them and let them know they should no longer find each other attractive.
Thanks. They may be disappointed at first - they still hold hands when they walk, and kiss each other when they are sitting together. But I’m sure, in time, they’ll understand your wise advice.
The problem is Threemae is there is a difference between saying “I find so and so attractive” and “So and so is ugly. No if, ands or buts.”
Ok, look at it this way. I have always been naturally attracted to dark skin people. My husband is black and native american. I think he’s incredibly sexy. However, the vast majority of white men (except Sting of course) do absolutely nothing for me.
So, I’m stating right now that I don’t find white men that attractive.
I am not saying White is Ugly.
See the difference?
It’s not a difficult concept to grasp.
And furthermore, being healthy has nothing to do with being beautiful. If this is a debate, or rant, about beauty do not bring up “Besides, obesity is unhealthy.” Maybe, but you are not here lecturing about how you want us to be super healthy. MGibson is not expressing concern. Threemae is not expressing concern. And Nichol_Storm is not expressing concern.
You can think fat=ugly and fat=unhealthy, but do not use the second to justify the first.
Actually, I’m not going to argue with you about this, Nichol, because this is how the OP should have stated his opinion. I’d have still had some points to argue, but the way you said it is not as inflammatory.
This is probably the stupidest thread I’ve ever read [sub]and yet I keep reading[/sub] - beauty is a subjective thing, period.
Personally, I like some muscle tone and a bit of definition, however little love handles are kinda sexy too. What does this mean to any of you? Well, not a damn thing unless we’re dating.
I know woman that prefer a big, beefy kinda guy (I find this a little intimidating) and I know woman the like a super lean wiry type guy - who cares?
Why on earth would you argue about what other people find attractive?
Now I’m not going to rant against anyone here but I’m going to state an opinion that probably isn’t popular. Smoking is ugly. Maybe I should clarify a bit. Not being able to cut back enough enough for hollywood’s standards isn’t ugly. And having a couple of of smokes once in a while isn’t ugly. But chain smoking is certainly ugly. I can’t think of many beautiful women from history who were nicotine fiends. I’m sure y’all might know of a few but I bet they’re abberents. or…
Now I’m not going to rant against anyone here but I’m going to state an opinion that probably isn’t popular. Brown hair is ugly. Maybe I should clarify a bit. Not being blonde enough for hollywood’s standards isn’t ugly. And having a couple of auburn hairs isn’t ugly. But full on chestnut hair is certainly ugly. I can’t think of many beautiful women from history who were brunettes. I’m sure y’all might know of a few but I bet they’re abberents.
See what happens? Now I know there’s a lot of folks who want to disagree with him, and it may seem like he is stating what he thinks is fact, but look how it changes when I put in brunettes or smokers.
Hey Doctor Goof-Off, it is obvious that when you last dieted, all of your weight loss was from your brain.
I lost a hundred pounds, only to gain it back and then some. My body has very, very little metabolism, and there is nothing I could do about that. I walk about eleven miles a day, go up and down twenty flights of stairs, and lift objects heavier than what passes as your ego. I can eat all vegetarian and still gain weight. That is how my body is.